Mojo wrote and fearless agreed: Therefore, what I would suggest is that instead of HD offering an "I'm sorry I frightened you." vibe, he should simply reflect back "When I put my hand on your breast, you felt frightened."
Hdog then wrote:
I don't get it. What, if anything, is this supposed to accomplish? When it seems pretty clear to me that what Ms.Hdog wants is me to apologize for what I did, how is "mirroring" going to do anything more than, probably, piss her off?
Hdog, for me I was focused on the VIBE portion of what Mojo wrote and not necessarily with what was verbally said to your wife. You really don't need to feel responsible for "making" your wife feel frightened but I suspect the VIBE you put off around your wife is one of taking responsibility for her feelings. And yes I think/believe that she does want you to take responsibility for her feelings.
What changing the VIBE to mirroring/ understanding her feelings rather than OWNING her feelings will do for you (and the relationship) is change the dynamic to one where, ideally, she can DIRECTLY state her feelings (which she does NOT do right now) and where you can HEAR and UNDERSTAND her feelings while not jumping in to own them. In that way you will feel stronger and she will feel your strength and feel that she can trust and rely on you which in turn will create a more sustainable dynamic for both of you. IMHO anyway!
And Hdog wrote:
Maybe I'm missing the whole "apologizing equals taking responsibility for her feelings" thing. Apologizing, to me, means that I'm taking responsibility for something I did.
Yes and I do think that you touching her when she CLEARLY has asked you not to was a "violation" and apologizing for doing something that she asked you not to do is "okay." But what I read, and I think Mojo did too, is that you were also apologizing for being a man who wants to touch his wife's breast AND apologizing for being a man who "frightens" his wife by touching her breast. And, again IMHO, I don't think those are things you need to apologize for and especially you don't need to even put out the VIBE that you are apologizing for those things.
I hope that makes SOME sense!!
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Corri, you said, "Why are you still standing there taking it? The most compassionate thing you could do for the person in this instance is walk away or leave." I *could not* agree with you more. I believe the *worst* thing you can do for a person who is being abusive for any reason is to continue to provide them with a willing victim. My tendency to soapbox on this subject springs largely from frustration with some dear friends who do not see it like this and continue to allow themselves to be used as metaphorical punching bags in the name of "long suffering". Which helps nobody.
I have a new perspective on the "not personalizing" thing, though, due to all these comments. I do see the benefit now. Realizing "this isn't about *me*" doesn't mean you have to tolerate the negative behavior .... but it *does* mean you can short-circuit the defensive reactivity you might tend to get. If you aren't trying to defend yourself because you're secretly afraid it might be somehow your fault ... if you are firmly convinced that this is the case regardless of what you may be being accused of .... you can deal with the situation on its merits or lack thereof without struggling in your own guilt=anger quicksand *on top of* what ever crap is being shoveled at you.
This seems to have a lot to do with differentiation, too, actually.... in that you are refusing to overtly or covertly "take responsibility" for the other's emotions. Which seems (in my case, anyhow) to be the key to relative calm.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
well, I think we're using a different sense of the word "victim". I simply meant that there are people who are on the receiving end of crap that was not in any way as a result of their own doing. This probably doesn't exist often in "relationships", though. I understand that. I also understand that sometimes, some people have a propensity to create their own drama, and wallow in it. But thats also not what I'm talking about. Sometimes, bad sh!t happens to people, and no amount of "thinking happy thoughts" is going to change it.
now...that stuff about "being busy being NOT a victim"...ya got me there. no idea what you're talking about...at least, how it applies to me.
