Nice discussion of all these concepts, and great example, fran, of how to be differentiated and not feel cold - I do this with my kids all the time. Sometimes, though, even with them, the denial of their wishes sometimes leaves me feeling cold. However, I am usually able to reason it out and understand that my decision is the right one.
Fran, you asked earlier on if I do actually "flip" the situations with my wife, making myself the 'victim'. Yes, I have done this before. It's not a constant thing...sometimes I have done it, and sometimes I don't. I think it's one of my NG tactics - get comfortable back in the victim role, don't let her focus on my flaws. I've got to work on this one.
The words "damaging to the relationship" weren't actually a direct quote of her statements to me, more of an "essence" of what she was saying. The thing is, I am able to look at my actions and say, "yes, I did this thing and it was wrong and it damaged the relationship by (e.g.) eroding her ability to trust me." Your point, however, that her withholding of sex can be seen as damaging the relationship, is valid. I am working on seeing the whole "withholding of sex" issue as something that I had a MAJOR role in. Making myself into a person she would not want to have sex with; sabotaging the sexual relationship; accepting bad sex, like a dog begging at the table for scraps; criticizing her sexual skills - making her the cause of my own inability to make sex last long enough for both of us to enjoy it; etc. Still, it does take two to tango, and she has less tolerance and patience and empathy for her "dance partner" than most women I've encountered, and, from what I read here and elsewhere, less than most women, period.
Cobra - Kett : The talk about "infantilizing" MsHdog was interesting. I don't know if you recall, but there was one particular argument I had with her and I tried, right in the midst of it, to think "she is saying this because of some past hurt suffered at the hand of her father". Once I thought of that, the anger I was feeling really did go "whooosh" and was gone, and I felt a wave of compassion for her. The problem is, I am just not able to consistently do that in the heart of the fray (even with the many opportunities to practice :)) And yes, even if I did that, what then? Do you indulge her? Do you tolerate her? Do you try to reason with her? Do you say, "you are saying this because of the emotional abuse you suffered as a child."? Do you duck after or during saying that?
