I think HD can feel compassion for how screwed up his wife is over sex right now and have the desire for her not to suffer without giving up being HD.
Seems to me that you can have feelings of compassion for the homeless but not give everyone with their hand out $20 dollars. Probably a poor example but one I am personally dealing with as I moved my office to a rougher part of town.
Looking at the dictionary definitions I probably have more pity than compassion.
(Corri) He wouldn't be here, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Hence the word "hypothetical".
Definitions and concepts aren't interesting me at this point. I'm interested in how observable *actions* would differ in the two cases. I've yet to see anyone make a case that the actions arising from either A or B would differ.
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So you think HD can be differentiated without being compassionate? I guess I'm not really getting your point. I think there are different degrees of compassion... I would never say I was differentiated in my M... but I began more acts of compassion as i worked toward differentiation.
I can see how a mother has lots of compassion for the kids or the H, feels their pain, etc, but due to poor boundaries losses herself in the process and then becomes reactive becasue she cannot stop the pain, or stop the kids or H from doing something to incur more pain. A differentiated mother could (or could not) feel the same pain but would also maintain herself from getting emotionally "sucked in" through better boundaries.
So I see compassion and empathy as possibly, but not necessarily, including fusion. Differentiation excludes fusion by definition. In my mind (and this is just me) I also feel like RJ does about differentiation in that it can feel a little "cold." Maybe others can differentiate better than I, but I see a need for a certain level of emotional detachment (and hence the coldness) in order to (theoretically) differentiate, that is, if I could differentiate.
Cobra, sometimes I understand you very well, and sometimes I think our communications styles are at cross purposes. S'ok. Makes me articulate better and practice not jumping to conclusions.
What I meant about professional Victims skeeving me out was specifically referring to the people you mentioned who say "I am damaged beyond repair; deal with it." And who spend all their time worshipping at the altar of their own pain to the exclusion of anyone else's.
And what I meant with the beating metaphor was simply about the personalization aspect. I just don't think it's realistic to expect that being repeatedly ranted at, threatened, whatever will have no negative effect on the person on the receiving end .... even if they *do* realize it's "not about them". To the extent that they're the ones wiping the venomous spittle off their face, it *is* about them. It would be wonderful if one could develop an impervious spit-shield of compassion ... but I don't think that's reachable for most of us. Or maybe just me.
Compassion and differentiation ... that's a tricky one. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this whole diffy thing. Gut response: Compassion with differentiation means you want to ease the pain of the person you love, for *their* sake and happiness. Compassion with fusion means you desperately *need* to ease the pain of the person you love so *you* don't have to feel it.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Choc, it's all just imaginary boxes, but damme if they don't really help you get a handle on organizing your closets sometimes (skeletons and all......)
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
... then there's "pseudo-compassion", wherein you back down and/or help out *not* because of any genuine fellow feeling but because you don't want to come off as the "bad guy". BTDT. Ick.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
If you're quoting Connie from the movie "Oscar," you r00l.
(Corri) So you think HD can be differentiated without being compassionate?
If you define compassion as a state of mind, then yes. If you define compassion via actions, then I think there's little difference.
Compassion seems to be, "I know something about this OP which makes me believe I understand where their bad actions (as perceived by me) are understandable. Therefore, I don't take their bad actions personally because I see that their source is not based solely in the interactions between the OP and me. I can address their bad actions without seeing them as a bad person because I believe I know and can sympathize with what's driving their bad actions."
Differentiation seems to be, "I respect this OP because I know that they're not me. They see the world differently from how I see it and that's okay with me. Therefore, I don't take their bad actions personally because I see that their source is within that separate person and are not reflective of me. I can address their bad actions without seeing them as a bad person because I accept that they are Other."
Compassion is a poor man's differentiation.
I say that because compassion seems to carry a connotation of permission and even obligation. If you have compassion for somebody you have a certain amount of permission to indulge their bad actions. You may, in fact, even have a certain amount of obligation to indulge their bad actions, since their actions aren't really their fault. If you're wanting to indulge another's bad actions, compassion is a siren's call.
Differentiation requires you to make a choice and own that choice completely. No permission or obligation to indulge the OP; if you indulge them it's because you chose to. Which is fine...you get to be you. You don't, however, get to say, "I put up with her because she had a rough childhood and she ran off with the milkman anyway." You put up with her because you wanted to. What she did is nothing more or less than what she did. The first part of that quoted sentence has nothing to do with the second part.
Otoh, differentiation gives you permission to make boundaries that are about *you*. Certain actions you'll accept and others you won't. You don't know why the OP does what they do so you have no need or desire to be vindictive. You simply react to what they do and offer them the opportunity, the choice, to change their actions toward you.
I always wonder when people say that differentiation seems cold to them. Why is that? Do those people believe that if totally left to their own devices, they would be cold? Would they not be kind or generous or (dare I say?) compassionate out of their own nature? Are they cold unless they have an external reason to be warm?
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
