muddled and angry: Puddle's sencond thread

[new_attitude]

Hi Puddle!

I don't think you have to word it that way. If you're trying to set a boundary, why can't you say "As long as we're living together, I don't think it would be acceptable for EITHER ONE OF US to date other people." I think wording it as "I want this, and if you can't agree *I* will do this..." is putting an ultimatum on yourself and possibly giving him an out.

On the email from the COW (coveted other woman! ), do you know for a fact that she knows the whole sitch (that H is interested in her)? Sorry if you mentioned that earlier and I forgot. If so, I think your response is good- short and sweet.

Over the last few days, I've been thinking that my H is wanting to date other women (more COWS!). It's just a feeling I have and it's awful.
Hugs to you...

[Puddle]

Thanks guys. I think what I'm going for is being firm (not angry or mean, but I want to come across as very clear about what I'm saying---not timid or wishy-washy) and friendly.

And NA, when I asked H to keep his dating activities and phone calls out of the house---again, not not to date at all---and he said it was unreasonable, I said laughingly, "Okay, how about I agree I won't bring anyone here either?" He said, "I don't care." And boy did he sound like he meant it.

He's a million miles ahead of me in all this. And I'm not sure if I've made this clear here or not, but H swears his wanting out has nothing to do with our R, he simply doesn't want me. Period. I'm baffled that he reached this point this fast, but he has. And I'm the tortoise to his hare.

H is reading "The Good Divorce," all about how to remain a "binuclear family" after divorce. See, I'm just not there yet, and it's going to take me months (at least) to catch up.

And I sent the COW (thanks, NA!) an email saying, "Thanks for writing; it can't have been easy. I'm doing well and will be fine. H will choose his own path. Sorry we couldn't be friends. I wish you well. Take care."

Now H is out for the evening, and I'm taking the kids out of town tomorrow. Between now and next Thursday, we'll only be home Monday evening. At least it'll give me some more time to figure out what to say.

Thanks, everyone.

[S.T. _I Made It!]

been outa town for a while. if you haven't gotten a response on the "if you don't, I'll..." question...

why not say, "In regards to any possible future dating, I need you to keep all contact with any OW outside the house. This is for my respect, and I will not allow myself to be mistreated. If this is going to be a problem, then we need to discuss some other alternatives."

Maybe just leaving it open, you won't have to go to those alternatives. But if you do need to discuss them... please don't move out. ask him what he thinks is fair, listen, then validate (without agreeing) and tell him what you need. I don't know that this helps you any, but that's a really tricky subject.

I actually kicked my H out saying if you can't stop talking to her then maybe you need to leave. Well, I regretted saying it and told him days later that I didn't want him to leave sooner than necessary and that we did want him there. If he could please keep all contact out of the house while he was here.

As far as I could tell, he did keep it all outside the house. even left in the middle of the night (to supposedly go to walmart but had an hour convo with OW- it was also after I put out several mushy cards he wrote me in the past...A big NO-NO for DBing!)

hope your doing okay.

[S.T. _I Made It!]

I know you've said there are no OW. but just be prepared that there is. Depending on what's going on, you really can't believe half of what they say. Even for the OW to email you, and if it's true that she doesn't want to reciprocate, you really don't know. People in As have such an ability of denial or deception.

However, it doesn't matter what he's doing, and I'm not trying to scare you, I just don't want you to feel as though another bomb hit you if you find out otherwise.

Have a good time with the kids... they are so important right now, and they are going to learn how to deal with their own sitches in the future by how you handle yours. You are doing a great job with all of this, so keep it up! You have a lot of great help here.

oh, and don't worry about getting a pro-marriage C, it doesn't mean their going to force the M on him.. if they are good, they know better.

[Not Much Left]

Hey Puddle
At the movies with the boys and havoing an internal meltdown, any words of encouragement? Amazing how this still happens. I freakin hate limbo.

C

[Nomopo]

You have to force yourself to stop thinking about limbo CVA. Detach.

Hi puddle

Nomo

[Puddle]

Journaling:

Yesterday (while out of town) I got a long email saying he's been reading online how other people "in [my] situation" deal and realized some of the things he's been saying and doing that sound "adult" and "logical" probably don't sound that way to me.

He said he's decided the basement apartment isn't a good idea, so if it's okay with me he'll keep sleeping in the kids' room and keep all "personal" stuff out of the house. Said "when the time comes" he'll need his own place to sleep. [Not sure what that means---here or elsewhere?]

Said he doesn't see any rush to "dissolve the marriage," wants to keep the house with me and the kids in it, continue our savings goals, and remodel the house. Says re finances he's committed to providing "at the same or higher level" for me, doesn't want to remarry, let alone start a new family. Wrote "The three of you are still my family---as weird as that may sound to you."

Thanked me for "not making a scene," calling names, or laying guilt trips, said I'm incredibly strong and he's happy to see that fear doesn't drive what I do [ha!], and that I'm the best mother he could hope for for our kids.

And the effect this all had on me? Made me feel more than ever that he's not changing his mind. It's weird, the more he seems to come back from space and see how all this might look like from my side, the sadder I feel. When he was out there, I could kind of laugh at it and see him as a total alien, but now he seems to be coming around but _still_ being totally done.

Had my last session with DB counselor (Dottie) today, which was really uplifting. She pointed out that I'm still jumping way too far ahead instead of staying in the moment, that I'm making all kinds of assumptions (re the basement apartment, for one), and that I'm not getting a D tomorrow. She helped me work out some things I can do to show H my biggest 180---taking down the walls and allowing myself to be vulnerable---even in the midst of all this, and I hadn't been able to see that possibility before. She reminded me that since this is one of my goals for myself, I can't lose; even though it seems like the worst possible time to make that leap, it's really the best possible time, maybe the only lifeline I've got.

So I'm feeling more relaxed now, keeping my brain in the here and now and not spending my time in the tunnel of horror that I imagine the future to be. And if H is beginning to see how this looks from my POV, maybe that's not a bad thing.

Oh, and Dottie told me that I should allow myself to tell H how I'm feeling, even cry if I want to, all in the service of being vulnerable. (No begging or pleading, of course, and she told me to keep it brief.)

It occurs to me that when H says there's nothing to fix in our R, "it is what it is" and he just doesn't want it, first off I hear "I just want a different person," which he hasn't (yet) said, and secondly, he's saying he doesn't believe I can change. He knows me, doesn't want to be with me, and that's that. Of course I can change, and I'm working on showing him that. But I realized I'd been thinking he just doesn't want me, no matter what I do or how much I change, and neither one of us yet knows whether or not that's true.

So I'm going to make myself available to talk when H wants to, not be afraid of telling him how I'm feeling, and tell him clearly what I want. I don't want to work with him to decide whom to tell and what; this situation is his decision and he'll have decide what to do about telling ("his") people.

[cliffy]

Sounds like good interactions. H has decided to respect some of your boundaries, great.
Show yourself that you can change for the better and H will see the change. This is not a sprint and the sense of urgancy seems to have lifted, now work on you. What do you need to do for yourself? Who is the person you want to be?

[S.T. _I Made It!]

CVA, don't exactly "force" yourself to stop thinking about it, that will only cause you to think of it more. Instead distract yourself. Do something with your hands..crafts, music, or read or whatever. For some people, it helps them to visualize a stop sign anytime they think of their sitch. Eventually, it will get easier, the more you take care of yourself and focus on what really matters.

take care

[Heimlich]

Puddle,

You sound a lot happier -- all things considered. Nice email to the COW (and there's a great acronym).

but now he seems to be coming around but _still_ being totally done.

I'm living this. On the one hand, it's terrifying. On the other, a little liberating. I'm living for me and trying to figure out who I am. Keep thinking I'm really not much different from the person my W fell in love with, just lost a few of my more endearing habits and picked up/reinforced some less than desirable traits.

I heard from my W that I just don't like you. Hurts. Your H is probably thinking it on some level. Part of that's wrapped up in the belief that you can't change. Even having heard that, and it hurt, it didn't crush me. Primarily, once I worked through the pain, she was right in some ways in that I hadn't been a good partner for her. Of course, the reverse is true and she's starting to acknowledge that, but what I'm rambling on about here is that even if your H ever says "I just don't like you," it doesn't have to be permanent.

You DB coach said it's OK to be vulnerable? She give you any tips for that without getting into a deep R talk? I know I stopped letting my W in (and she's shut me out too, which came first, the chicken or the egg?). How do you show emotion/vulnerability without talking too damn much?

BD