I'm sorry... I think you are missing what Cobra is saying. And 'expectations' that anything will get better or worse, is projection, in my opinion. I expect things to get better? Well... what is better, and according to whom? And what if I don't agree with your expectations? You kind of get stuck in a power struggle right there, I think.
I don't think Cobra would ever call ANYONE a poor dear, she's just a scared little girl. Yeesh. No. What he is saying, I think, is to try and fathom the hurt someone is or has experienced... and really try to feel it.... fear and trauma are not small things. And they go deep, and the impact of it can last and affect behaviors in all kinds of funky ways.
It does NOT excuse poor behavior. Not at all. I just think compassion allows the spouse to NOT personalize what, on the surface, can seem and feel, very personal.
Many times compassion is a lot like forgiveness in that even if we seem to be giving it away mostly we benefit immensely from letting "it" go. If HD is to have compassion for his wife it does him just as much good if not more.
Many times compassion is a lot like forgiveness in that even if we seem to be giving it away mostly we benefit immensely from letting "it" go. If HD is to have compassion for his wife it does him just as much good if not more.
Absolutely. Abso-friggin-lutely. Well said.
And btw, when I was married, I absolutely SUCKED at compassion. It wasn't until I started healing my own hurts that compassion for others began to creep in. I was just too wrapped up in my own pain.
I agree with everything you guys are saying. I think.
Perhaps it's a bit of a knee-jerk response on my part. I have been around people who get absolutely *mired down* in all the reasons why they had the worst childhood ever and how could anyone ever expect them to behave better than they are. By which I mean, like kind compassionate supportive human beings themselves. That victim philosophy just skeeves me out, so yeah, I'm sensitive to it. And I guess I have a hard time wrapping my head around "not personalizing". I mean, I do see the point. The emotions they're acting out didn't originate with *me*, so I should just let it go and not take it as a reflection on me. On the other hand ... they *are* up in my face treating me badly. So I think it's important to acknowledge that, to the degree someone is continuing to act out emotions toward someone else, they are *making* it about that person in current reality. If you beat the crap out of me because your father beat you, it's not about me, but I'm still just as bloody .... If that makes any sense....
That said, yes. I am right now in the middle of a serious example of how childhood hurts have impacted my own marriage. This is a good thing, but it does show how you can't just sweep that stuff under the rug; it festers....
Dunno. None of this is easy.
Last edited by Kettricken; 09/10/0710:05 PM.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
I always heard that line about forgiveness too. While in the heat of battle and full of resentment, I could give a flip about how much I was going to gain from forgiveness or "letting it go." In fact, it didn't seem to me that it would make me feel good at all. What made me feel good was to even the score. That felt good.
The downside is that my wife did the same to me. She never let go of the past and used it as a wedge to even the score in her own way (which made me want to even the score, creating that self reinforcing negative cycle). What I did want was for her to stop dredging up the past and using that as an excuse to not move forward. I needed to disarm her weapon of past resentment. Her not forgiving kept her in a one up position and I did not like that.
Burgbud's quote that "Forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past" clinched it for me. If I could forgive, my wife could forgive. I forgave in order to get something for me. I forgave to hold over her head the need to forgive. Now I had the high ground and she had to rise to the occasion and forgive too.
The interesting thing is that even though this was all part of a continuing power struggle, once forgiveness was made, much of the power struggle relented and the original self motivated reason for forgiving vanished too (or at least diminished, LOL!) So the moral is that regardless of what twisted reason you need to justify forgiveness, even if you think it is a power play, do it anyway. Things will still work out.
I have been around people who get absolutely *mired down* in all the reasons why they had the worst childhood ever and how could anyone ever expect them to behave better than they are.
My first reaction was to think there are two things going on here… One is that in what you describe, no one is validating one another, so each is pushing his pain to the front to try and get sympathy. It is a competition to see who’s pain in more important. This can be cured by validating and really acknowledging each other’s pain.
The other thing I see is a deflection for each person to not have to work on his/her issues. Simply saying “this is how I am, damaged beyond repair” is just an excuse to avoid responsibility and face the hard truths.
That victim philosophy just skeeves me out, so yeah, I'm sensitive to it.
Are you sure this isn’t your deflection to push aside the needs of the others so you can keep yours in sight?
If you beat the crap out of me because your father beat you, it's not about me, but I'm still just as bloody .... If that makes any sense....
I’ve heard this too as an excuse to not become vulnerable and to maintain walls…. Just another deflection.
So what I'm hearing is that compassion allows a person to act like they're differentiated even if they're not differentiated. Or even want to be differentiated.
If that's not the case, what would be the difference in behavior between a compassionate person and a differentiated person?
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