Jethro,
What you refer to are expectations. We build history in an R. With that history, we develop certain expectations. Expectations for how our spouse will act, how they will react. Some of these expectations are founded in truth. Some are founded in fabrication. As our attitude becomes "more negative" as in a struggling R, our expectations become more negative as well as unrealistic.
I had to reach the point of giving up and letting go of hope for my R before I could open up and accept this idea. Zeroing out the expectation meter allows us to experience the good things that happen.
When you say "it's not enough", it's the expectations talking.
I'm not saying we should not have expectations. We should! However, they need to be realistic and need to be based on the truth of the current situation. This means they may need to be zero for a while.
Like the weather, feelings change. Like the tide, love flows. This process allows us to see the difference between love and infatuation as well as understand the meaning of "for better or worse".
I can see that LL is weary. It's natural as this growth process is very draining. Sometimes, the best thing we can do is to do less, think less, worry less. For me this was a hard task. Even after Michele looked me in the eye and told me so.
I'm not here to tell you what to do LL. I'm here to reassure you that you know what to do. I'll also reassure you that it's the hardest thing you may ever have to do. It may also prove not to be what is best for you.
I will recommend this to you. When you are this weary, you need to take some time and get away. Alone! Time alone helps to heal our own confusion. It allows us to regroup and refresh our Karma.
Imagine yourself sitting on a white beach sipping your favorite beverage. Your only concern is where you will go for your next meal. The biggest question is do I take the windjammer cruise or go diving on the reef.
Jethro makes a good point. I get the sense that your H is overwelmed and doesn't have the self-esteem to believe he has it within him to turn it around. He can't talk to you about it because he fears you cannot react to it in a positive light - will lose respect for him, think he's weak, whatever ... which started him down the path to hopelessness and IMO he has come close to resigning to it.
Quoting Jethro: Is it possible that over the years you've accumulated a huge list of needs that have never been fulfilled that it is entirely too intimidating for your H to handle? That all he sees is a daunting list that can never be fulfilled?
Hmmmm, I have to wonder about this in my sit. too.
Quote: the issue is the "us" I don't want any more than your average person...I don't want to be doted on...I want a participatory r with someone...to be a friend to have a friend...to laugh and have fun...to share...to be able to touch and be touched (to not feel a fear of rejection)
common guys is this really expecting to much of a r????
I have asked myself the same. I don't think I asked too much from my H (often caught myself thinking "come on, just throw me a bone, anything!" like you have). Problem is he offered so little on his own, and put in so little effort even when he did something, that my list of requests did look quite long.
What I really wanted, above all else, was to feel like we were on the same team, supporting each other no matter what. I didn't feel that, well not for a long time anyway!
Quoting lostlove: the issue is the "us" I don't want any more than your average person...I don't want to be doted on...I want a participatory r with someone...to be a friend to have a friend...to laugh and have fun...to share...to be able to touch and be touched (to not feel a fear of rejection) ------------------------------------------------------------ common guys is this really expecting to much of a r????
In healthy R where both partners are in a healthy emotional state, the answer is No, it not to much to expect. BUT , your H is presently not in a healthy emotional state so those expectation must be put on hold for now.
Quoting lostlove in a previous post: ...expressed last night and other times that he thought that was what being a good h and father was about..but is realizing it is not..he wants to be there for the kids..realizes that simply being here is not enough for them...they need interaction as do I. that even though it is enough for him to just be here it is not for them [ (sic) ... and you. ]
He has to resolve the issues he has with himself about being an inadequate partner in any R first.
The C consult is the first step in that direction. (Correction - second step - first step is that he recognized he needs help and seeks it to move in that direction.
Quote: first step is that he recognized he needs help and seeks it to move in that direction.
but it is not that he sees himself as not being capable of doing these things in a r...it is that he sees himself not able to do these things with ME..
he did want to spend time with ow. he did want to talk to her... he did want to do things with her...(he after all asked her out to lunch it wasn't just her) he did want to be physical with her..
he does remember wanting to do these things with me and for me..but now he does not..and it has been such a long time since he's wanted to that he just doesn't think "it's" there with me.
get what I'm saying??
it's not that he is incapable of having a r..having the desire to hug a woman..be physical with a woman...laugh..talk...do things..go places...share...etc...it is that he doesn't have the desire or feel like he can with me.
thing is he knows he loves me...will say so..he wants me to be happy...will always take care of me and the kids..but the ole question of whether or not he can be a participatory partner in a r with ME is what he questions.
I did ask him..is it that you feel you are not cappable of these things...or that you are not capable of them with me.
his answer...I'm sure you can figure by what I've just said.
the age old "I love you, I'm just not in love with you"
I can only hold on for so long waiting for someone to "get it" h knows and understands all the bits of ..r's take work..happiness is something you work at..bla bla bla...he knows all this stuff...but yet doesn't feel motivated to do the work. yes he will go to the c...to talk himself to the c maybe a couple of times and then MAYBE we can go together...he's hoping that the c will pick up on something..in his mannerisms or tone or something...as if the c will have an answer for him...
on good note..we did talk more last night...still didn't make me feel great but did feel closer to him for the fact that he was being open and honest even if I didn't like what I heard. today h didn't leave for work til after 10...met with us at bertucci's for lunch and then we all went to dd's doctor appointment..while on the way home..h called my cell to let me know or rather have me guess how much it cost him to park in the lot (50 cents) I thanked him for comming with us..his response, "you know how I feel about the kids appointments" I said " I know and I appreciate that you feel that way and so I'm thanking you" ... " no problem"
I think it might be easier to do all that stuff with someone with whom you don't have a history.
Could you act as if you don't have a history with him, and see how things go?
My gut says that you are taking those things too personnaly...
I've walked down the road of comparing my relationship with my husband to his relationship with his girlfriend (who didn't stop calling him even AFTER we got married! ) before we got married...did no good, just made me blind to the good things in our relationship. Could you be doing that too?
Quote: I've walked down the road of comparing my relationship with my husband to his relationship with his girlfriend (who didn't stop calling him even AFTER we got married! ) before we got married...did no good, just made me blind to the good things in our relationship. Could you be doing that too?
I'm assuming he is drawing the comparison and therefore I draw it. I try my best to not think of ow...she is nobody anyway...I know I am better than her...and honestly she would end up giving h more crap about not being happy than I ever could...she after all had this r while married...complained to me about foolish things regarding her h..and decided to leave him for a man not very different from her h.
it is not about the other person...it is about the fact that he doesn't have the desire to do or say or be with me...but with her (only used her as an example because it shows he's capable) he did...sheesh 3x a week off to her house to have lunch (or whatever I don't know details) calling everyday..wanting to be with her and near her etc...
it's in him is all I'm saying...he's more than a bread winner... I know it...he knows it...he just doesn't have a desire right now to be much more than that for me. and it sucks!!!
ok...was scanning another thread (rjj) and picked up on some w's questioning whether or not their h's ever really did love them...and this is what I said to them...
I listening (or rather reading) bits of this converation...was it lies..did they love us ever?? etc..
what I've come to realize is that yes they did and a part of them still does... but for whatever reason that part is either burried or they're protecting it...all we can do is sit back and do our best to be our best and wait and see if the dust (or in some cases mortar) can slowly get brushed away til those feelings are uncovered.
though I have not felt special to my h for many years...I do recall feeling like the luckiest girl in the world... I was once special to him...even gave me a charm that said ...someone special...that feeling has been lost and sometimes it gets so lost we don't even know why so then don't know how to get it back.
think for a moment...maybe the fact that we doubted their love for us made us unhappy and therefore they see that they can't make us happy so they are unhappy and thus must not love us right??
the only easy way to describe it is this..(sorry to the prudish) a man wants to please his woman in bed (gee maybe that's why we've learned to moan) if he doesn't he feels innadequate...can't please her...therefore he doesn't enjoy himself either and sex soon become a dissinterest. if they try in their way to make us feel loved and we are not pleased would the same reaction not happen???
LL
maybe though he says it him and not me...it is infact me..there is nothing I am doing that he doesn't like...he feels loved..he just doesn't feel like his love is being appreciated? he's not good enough for me?? etc.
) before we got married...did no good, just made me blind to the good things in our relationship. Could you be doing that too?