Asking for help...not an easy thing for me

[Rollercoasterider]

things like that tend to get my hopes up

...things like him breaking through a boundary to watch TV at the house...and other things, I bet.

Well, look at the boundaries. Everyone here is right, they are important. But think about each one.

Why did you say he had to watch TV somewhere else?

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing...but I think your reason is important.

For me, I wanted Sweetheart to come over and hang out in our HOME...because it was his comfort zone and I wanted him to think of it as home.

Now that changed...a few times. Boundaries need to be firm, but flexible. I later began locking the bolt so he couldn't get in the house...he wasn't abusing that, it was more a message for him...not the usual reason. Sweetheart only showed up unexpectedly on a few occasions, we don't have kids yet, so I didn't have to deal with him barging in all the time like many do.

Could the TV watching be something that is okay to do at the house--since it's an activity with your son? If it were simply him coming over and hanging out for no reason, I'd look at it differently. But this is a prescheduled thing--right?

He said, "So I should do like you and tell you every time you hurt me?" I said, "of course you should!

I just wanted to quote this because it is excellent. This is making a safe place for him to reveal his feelings. He may not feel safe, but you are still doing your part.

Get a life and keep moving on "as if." Emotionally, though, I just can't continue that.

If you say you can't...

What about GAL can't you do? That is, what are you afraid GALing will yield? GALing doesn't mean you make a firm decision to never take him back. Hey, my Grandpa died in 1992; Grandma hasn't dated or wanted to and she has never stopped living. You can choose to GAL regardless of relationships--romantic or other. It doesn't mean yu go find someone else...or that you don't go find someone else. GAL is what you make it, not what the rest of us say it is.

As for 'as if' I've got mixerd feelings on that...'fake it till you make' isn't bad, but what happens when you get stuck faking it and don't seem to be making it? Find what is real and do that. Sweetheart called me on my faking it; he saw right through it. He needed to know that he meant something to me and thus I was hurt. He didn't want the guilt-burden, yet at the same time he needed reassurance that I valued him and thus losing him wasn't bringing me perky joy.

if he lets it go that far and blows that much money, I will not turn back when it is over

MAny of the quotes I pulled show this...so you are still willing to tunr back/ take him back now.

That is what you have said--in a waivering way--through out the initial post on this thread. So think about that; think about what that means for you.

I just wish he would leave me alone. I also wish that he wouldn't.

And there it is. That says it all. It doesn't answer anything, but it reveals your personal confusion.

I do know that I would not consider keeping this relationship going if I didn't think that I could be better in it.

This was interesting. I pulled with cheer leader thoughts, but this morning brought some different thoughts.

So let me first ask...do you mean you think that you can be better than you were before... that is be a better wife, you've changed, corrected some mistakes etc. OR that you thnk you can be better in the relationship than out of it? Perhaps both?

It is that latter meanging to which I will write.
There ar emany options in life...but for the need to be simple, you've got
A. Take him back (supposing he agrees someday)
B. Divorce

One of these options is not better than the other. A couple of years ago I posted that many will look back at the option they didn't choose and be relieved.

Wow, glad I didn't take him back. I'm so much better off...and look at him; I don't want that. I'm happy in myself now, I'm strong...possibly another relationship--a better relationship.

Wow, I am so glad I gave our marriage another chance. We are so much better than before. I think about what life would be like had I not take this chance and I don't like what I see. I'm so lucky.

In crisis, the other side is always greener. In good times, your side is greener. But if one chooses happiness; the grass is abundant wherever you are. A person can be strong, happy and at peace within or without their spouse...it's a choice, not either or.

And to be honest, things he asked you and said to you are definitely relationship talk type things. He seems ready to talk. Asking if he should tell you when you hurt him is definitely relationship stuff.

Interesting...very insightful.

I do so much better when detaching. My problem with that is that it is so hard to detach and still keep nice feelings about him. I tend to turn to the dark side when I detach.

I feel that there are different levels of detachment. Many become so detached that they no longer care. They no longer care about the marriage, the person, the realtionship...those I see at this level also tend have more likelihood to dehumanize--demonize their spouse. Too much detachment leads removes the LBSs compassion. Lissie is an ideal example of loving detachment...there are many other examples, but I use her to show that loving detachment can still be in place when the LBS doesn't want the MLCer back.

Detach from the emotional rollercoaster without detaching from the person.

How? I think this comes from an inner strength and stability in one's Self--personal Peace.

How do I detach from the guy who compliments me more now than he ever has?

Why do the compliments hinder detachment?

Do you need those compliments to boost your self-esteem?
If some guy on the street whistles at you, do you get your hopes up? Maybe you really are hot! And your husband simply knows this...he may be offering a genuine compliment with no hidden message or agenda.

Is there some reason you do not believe you are beautiful or worthy--thus a compliment must mean more?

I get the difficulty...nice Vs. Puffy
Cinder's MLCer Vs. Puffy

I know the challenges. Sweetheart has for the most part been a nice MLCer.
But then I've seen the other emotions. When I woldn't react, he spewed at others. I saw and see his Depression up close. So maybe I would have had an angry MLCer if I behaved differently...not saying other behaviour is incorrect...but we all have variables. Maybe Puffy would react to my methods with anger and spewing, maybe he's project elsewhere...I don't know.

What I do feel is that you need to look at yourself some more. Not what am I DOING wrong--which is waht you are asking now. But why do I think what I'm doing is wrong.

In the beginning we refer the LBS to the mirror...to find and accept their part. That's not what I'm doing here. You've done that. But what did you find? Did you find somethings you didn't like...that you may or may not have changed...but you still feel guilt over? Things that you did not want to face, so you buried them again?

Before you can consider either option A or B, you need to answer the question: What am I afraid of? And then...what do you do about those fears? How can you overcome those fears?

I do feel that self-worth is an issue--since you referenced compliments.

I've also listed a bunch of other fears later--I wrote this completely ourt-of order!

he seems to think that the ability is just there or it isn't.

I took this out of context because it fits in so may other contexts. Love should be easy and if it isn't easy, walk away. People think they, their spouses or their situations are special cases--different from all the rest. They could go to a prodigy counselor and be the only couple not helped AT ALL. Since this is clearly the case, why bother trying?

I really want to do better, and I just don't understand what I am doing wrong.

I don't get this...why do you think you are doing something wrong...cause you're not.

Is there a specific outcome from right and all other outcomes mean the doing was wrong? Or are there many outcomes for each...you are doing things and having certain results with wchich you are not satisfied...are the results within your control?

No...not when another person is involved. Your happiness is within your control.

Sure you can do something different...but it doesn't mean that what you have been doing is right or wrong...that's a judgment on your actions. There is no right or wrong.

I know what we are doing is not working, but I have no idea how to fix/change it.

Me neither...at least not how to fix...but changing means doing something different, right? What can you do that is different--180s? What boundaries are working for YOU...are there boundaries YOU don't want that you set-up?

You can change them you know...just find a good reason so he understands...otherwise it may seem a weakness. Or admit you made a mistake if that is the case.

The reason you have clarity for other situations and not yours is because yours is the only only one in which you have an emotional attachment. You are afraid that actually setting the boundaries will put the nail in the coffin.

So ask yourself this...what is it that you are afraid of...beyond the final coffin nail. Do you fear being alone, not being able to pay bills, your children's future relationships, your children's present and future well-being, without you he will not be saved (exit the tunnel or something else), that divorce taints you--and you are a failure, that no one will love you again, your children will blame you, you will not be able to get up in the morning without him there--because he is your life, that without him you will not be complete...?

That's not a rhetorical question. Think long and hard about it. And notice that most of the examples I gave weren't relationship focused problems.

Here's one answer

I start to think about my family and how I owe it all to them to not give up to the bitter end. My children deserve more than this.

I am one of those who actually believes in staying together for the kids...but that's my belief system, not yours. AND I believe in making a marriage a real marriage...choosing happiness within the marriage. What I see you doing is martyring yourself for your children.

Take a breath too, in between all of this

you are going to get hit with a million directions to go.

I pray about the advice I get when I am on my own, and then go with my gut.

Yup. Be careful that all the pieces of advice don't cause you to spin.

What about this...
Ask him if he really wants the divorce. If he says yes, reply with "Well I don't, so I've decided not to go along with it at this time. If you still want it in six months, we can talk about it then. But for now I'm sticking by you while you work things through."

Ya know, I actually like this!

My one of the million directions would be to ask rhetorically...let him know you do not want an answer, but that it is a question he needs to ask himself.

I'm not the fan of questions that IMP is. They have their place and may work. But I also think they can be dangerous...questions force an answer when the person doesn't want to give one. Since they don't want to give an answer...well, maybe they don't really know the answer. But since you asked...they'll give you one. And I agree with you that he will say that he wants the divorce.
Last year I asked Sweetheart a question: "What the he!! do you want?" And well, he answered it..."I told you, I want a divorce!"

Okay...I'm posting that tongue in cheek right now...he called me at 6am on my birthday--after not communicating for a few weeks. I knew what I was doing...but was in anger mode and reacted anyway...I forced an answer from him...and he didn't expect that question, so he had to react back.

to change the dance, so according to the DB principles put forth in the book, she has to do something different.

And I think this is one of the key things that everything distills down to.

What you do that is different needs to be toward what you want...and given your own confusion, you need to find a way to figure out waht it is you want.

If he says that yes, he does want the D, then starts coming around all nice and flirty, it's time to say, "H, we are getting divorced, we are not friends and this is not appropriate." He will get angry, and you hang up. Say it nicely, but firmly. He needs to understand that you have feelings, you are not just a toy for him to pick or put down when he wants.

This should make him realize that the D won't be everything he wants, but even if it doesn't, I think it will help YOU.

Excellent...I love this piece of advice. It includes boundaries, the question, the consequences...great.

For wanting this D, he really has no idea about any of it. It really is odd.

I've found that is normal. They think there will be this nice clean break...and then things will go on as they did before...yeah, in fantasy land.

I think the most important things is what you want.
But then, you want him to leave you alone...and you don't want him to leave you alone.

Soooo, before you can determine what you want, you need to adress your fears.

Once you have addressed your fears and determined what you want, you can then figure out what to do differently.

Except that what I just said sounds like it could take a long time...UGH. What can help you NOW deetermine what to do differently...WHILE you address your fears and figure out waht it is you want. I don;t have an answer...so input form the crowd...?

But something I want you to believe

No matter what you are beautiful, worthy, strong. No matter the outcome you can have a wonderful life.

HUGS,
RCR