There and Back, #5

[nephartiti]

I think confusion for H is definitely a step in the right direction! My H used to be confused. Then, I pressured him. Now he's adamant he doesn't want anything to do with me. What I wouldn't do for the confusion stage again. That's actually one of my goals.

Kudos to Morgan! I agree with MK, enjoy his persuit of you! Make him really want you. The confusion will chip away in your favor. Give him just enough to keep him wanting more.

[mkultra]

I know you and he are confused, but Goodness almighty am I jealous! Do the kids see this affection? How have they reacted to it? Our kids are constantly asking us to kiss and hug and dance and hold hands. Do you know how awkward and devastating it is to explain to a child that Mommy and Daddy do not love each other that way. It is like teaching a child that water is not wet. Show love and be loved. Let him date you and fall back into love. He wants you at the beach. Just don't share him. Help him get over his affair. There is no pride in that but I guess we need humility to save our marriage. You are now on the same team, the family, the marriage, the future. If your Northeren Star is growing old with this person than some day these past few months will be worth it for a life time of love.

[LL44]

Confusion is key!!! Wow, and is he ever torn. morgan, I know you hate to see 'baby steps' (so do I) because we mostly get knocked down, but he is really struggling here. I think its because you set boundaries and are sticking with them. Everything you said to him was reasonable (about not being able to hug him, etc), but they were probably hard for him to hear.

And OMG: "anyway. partly for my own privacy, partly because, well, its fun to bug him." LMFAO!!! As of yesterday, I have set up my voice mail on my personal phone (never bothered because I have a work phone that has it), and all day today my friends were calling me while we were at a neighborhood party. Instead of answering it, I just hit 'ignore". H has no reason to think I am seeing anyone, and I don't want him to think that. But I wouldn't mind him squirming a bit about whether or not I spoke with OW's H yet (he hasn't asked).

[mkultra]

Squirming is good. What are they going to do, get pushed into an affair? Oh yeah, they already did that. Suckers.

[SallyM]

Nephartiti, don't give up, I've done that, too. we've been here before, at this stage, and I did all the wrong things (pre-db). confusion is good....or at least can be good.

mk, the kids are there to see it, and I'm not sure what they are thinking. I know last weekend S5 tried to defend my honor when daddy kept tackling mommy (especially when he did at the overlook on the kancamangus highway). It was sweet and funny and all around adorable, he would fight for me because he didn't know wtf was up with daddy. lol. I'm worried that the affection they are seeing will give them hope that daddy will come home. I don't want to set up false hope for them...it's hard enough on me.

and here is the clincher, mk, you say to let him date me and romance me and such, but he doesn't want to. he still doesn't want to. he doesn't know wtf he wants. and I'm afraid letting anymore physical stuff happen will just seal the deal against me. will I go with them if he asks me along on a family outing? possibly, but not every time. and who knows if he will again. so far, he has just shown that he is physically attracted to me again. But is love growing again? does he care for me, want to romance me, take care of me...forsake her for me? all those things I deserve? no, don't quite get that feeling. and lol about what are they going to do, get pushed into an affair? lol.

lwb, good for you for adding the private v.m. for you. nice to have a little mystery. and very curious that he hasn't asked about ow's H yet. take care...I'm thinking of you, and hoping your day went well.


well, its 1am. no, I'm not getting back from a hot night out, I just woke up and can't get back to sleep. my sleep is all thrown off lately, ugh. fell asleep last night while watching Cary Grant and Irene Dunn in a movie where they proceed with a divorce because they each think the other is having an affair. I love them, but ouch, given the current climate of my life, hard to appreciate the farce of it.

I had a good day...did a lot of me stuff. H called a couple of times to ask stupid questions (where a particular exhibit is in the science museum...um, my 5 year old is map obsessed, and there were probably a ton of people working there to ask, so why the call?). I didn't pick up, instead called him back 10 minutes later or so. I called to say goodnight to the kids early, and had H cracking up about some stuff, and still refused to say where I was or what I was doing...he kept asking, instead of answering, I made him laugh. all was good, until I did answer. I returned a call to him at around 7:30 when I was just pulling into the driveway and he asked and I told him where I was.

I think the reason I told him was because I wanted to challenge him. If he wanted to talk about his confusion or what was going on with us without kids around, well, there I was. his mom was home, I heard her in the background, so he could have come over. I did NOT ask him to come over, did not hint at it. and as soon as I said it, I felt like a door shut on any interest...my gut knew it was the wrong thing to say as soon as I said it. I should have let him think I went out/stayed out late. but hey, so it goes. and probably a good thing he didn't come over, because it is easier to be strong when he doesn't. lol.

he's coming over with the kids today to watch the football game here. If I can get to sleep, I'm going to hit the gym and the grocery store first thing in the morning, then get showered and changed quickly so I can be gone before they get here. planning on going tennis shoe and boot shopping...wish me luck on the boots! not sure what I am looking for, something that will go with a denim pencil skirt now that espadrille season is winding down. but really its an excuse to not be here when he gets here. busy busy busy and all that.

[nephartiti]

Hang in there, Morgan. Just take it slow. I read in the going dark thread yesterday something about getting the love from your partner flowing again.

"Seduce to find the smallest crack for this flow to start flowing again. But the seduction must be very subtle, quiet. It cannot appear as persuit-compliments, praise, when we touch letting the touch linger a little too long, telling her how pretty she looks, what a great mom she is, etc--anything that reinforces and draws out this flow of love."

Anyway, you get the idea.

Boundaries are good and essential for respect to be established. You respect yourself and he will have no choice but to do the same. Since he is making it clear that he wants you physically, I think it is reasonable to maintain your boundaries at this point, for yourself and your children.

IF I were so lucky to be in your position, I would express, when the time was right, that altough it is extremely tempting to participate, I respect myself too much to be the OW while he is with someone else. That is not making any demands on him. It is simply setting the boundary of respect. In the mean time, I would still flirt, stay mysterious, and accept some invites to "play family".

Baby baby steps. Hold his hand, but don't pick him up and carry him.

[LL44]

nephartiti, you are so smart!!! That sounds like the perfect balance. Its hard when we draw the line and feel like we have pushed them away more, but really, we can only hope it makes them stop and think.

mk, LOL, what can they do? Go have an affair? Oh yes, not much more they can do, might as well do for ourselves.

morgan, I thought of you last night. Feel free not to answer, but do you think H told OW he ML to you? I wonder if H's OW knows that we have been intimate a few times in the last couple of weeks. If they (my H and OW) talk about sex, I wonder if this has come up.

Back to your weekend, I am glad you are staying busy. Hope today will be fun. About boots, I hope you find some. What about some fall/winter slide ons for the cooler weather?

[SallyM]

I am the stupidest freaking person on the face of the earth. I am. its all smoke and mirrors and I am a fool.

my day was completely thrown off first of all. I woke up at 7 and came downstairs and realized half of my power was out...it was really weird, some things were fine, some things weren't (including my computer, ack!). I did all the things I could think of, tripped the circuit breakers and such, but no luck. it started spazzing, actually, almost poltergeist like...the tv kept trying to turn on and off, click click click, over and over. I finally unplugged it, very freaky. I called H (I know, I know, I shouldn't do that) and he was immediately irritated. seriously, I could hear his thoughts...can't she even work a circuit breaker??? he said he'd be here as soon as possible.

I hung up and called the electric company, they thought it was weird that part of my house was working and not the rest, but she was very nice and noted it. I talked to a neighbor who was already outside and he had no issues. around 9 I called my dad and he had me do a few things, but then when nothing worked said to call an electrician. finally did that, just left a message with him.

H finally showed up around 11:30 and re-did all the things I already did, to no avail. thankfully not much later the electric company showed up and it was a fried wire, so woo-hooo! no big bill for me from an electrician, and problem solved.

no, none of that reflects my idiocy. that comes as the kids are playing in the playroom and as the guy was working on the lines outside. H attacked. yeah, I know. I went for it. dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

wtf is wrong with me, people? I know this is wrong, I know its downright gross, considering he is still with OW.

later, he did stay to watch the game and I got ready to head out. he was surprised I was going out...had it in his head that I would stay and watch any kids who were too rambunctious to watch the game. nope, I went out. He asked if I would stop and get him a sub on my way home. which I really didn't mind doing, until he pointed out that he really shouldn't ask favors of me, that it wasn't cool of him to do. ouch. damn, that hurt. because I guess part of me doesn't think stopping for a sub is that big a deal, and that made it a bigger deal.

he made a comment, asked me if I thought he was messing with my head. I asked him point blank, "well, are you?" he said he didn't know. ouch again. but all this I knew in my gut, so why be surprised? why set myself up? why? why am I so freaking stupid.

then he told me his buddy got the job that should have been his. he didn't put it like that, just said D got X job. but I know it should have been his. its what he had worked for, what we had hoped for. but H didn't even go for it, didn't even try...because its out of state (mid-atlantic, even the region he has always wanted). he didn't even try for his freaking dream job because of ow.

I ran my errands, ended up just getting new tennis shoes (and his sub), and on the drive back home I bawled my eyes out. I am just dumb. and disgusting, that I would let him touch me. seriously, how pathetic am I? (yeah, already know the answer to that one). and while I'm happy for his buddy, that should have been us preparing to move, not him.

I was fine by the time I got home, gave him his sub (forgot to get an iced coffee for him, he was bummed, but will live, and did thank me for the sub). we talked a little, not much. he asked if I had told my sister about what we've been doing/he's been doing the last week or so, and I told him no. honestly, I haven't...not the real extent of it. because I am such a loser I'd rather her not know. she knows enough, trust me. and one of my best friends does know, and you all, but that's it. I'm too embarassed. I don't even want to tell you guys I'm so embarassed, but I figure I need to be honest here.

I didn't say all of that, just said no, I hadn't talked about us lately...that it got boring, all the drama and such. which is true. I couldn't resist, even though I knew I should have...I asked if he had told OW. He looked shocked that I had said that. then he put his spin on it, saying that I was wrong to believe that he was with her all the time.

but the thing is, I know he is, I do. I don't just suspect it, I KNOW it.

what's been happening between us, its all just smoke and mirrors, and I know that too. and I'm bawling my eyes out because I want so badly to believe in the illusion.

[mkultra]

So if he got the job you all would have move as a family. I want to clarify because when you mentioned this I figured he did not want to move from you. I think Marriage Builders does mention the success rate of a R post infidelity is increased when th efamily physically moves from the affair to get over the addiction. But what if he is a serial cheater. I know every story is different. You may be emotional because that ML is emotional not just physical for us gals. Sometimes it is for fun but sometimes it is for intimacy and you are lacking intimacy with him because he has put up this road block of deception. You have been open and he has been closed and that feels unfair. However, you still have passion and you are not numb nor is he. That is such a big deal. He wants to be with you and you are the wondeful mother of his children. For me, now my H will move to his new job with his new OW and leave us behind, even his beloved children.

[SallyM]

mk, I meant that if none of this had happened (the affair, the problems with our marriage), then he likely would have been offered the job and we would have moved. this was the job he had worked toward since he started with the company, the one we moved here almost 2 years ago to prep for. and he just threw it away. no, he wouldn't have taken it because of our situation, too. if we divorce, we are pretty much both stuck in MA until the kids are grown. so his options are limited, just like hers are (she can't leave due to visitation with her son/ex).

I know timing is everything. obviously even if ow wasn't in the picture, but our marriage was still in trouble, it probably still wouldn't be the time for it. but damn. and I hate that he left his old company. yes, even if ow works there. I love them, they are a great company to work for.

but c'est la vie. if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

He does seem to have passion for me again (big difference from when he told me I was more like his sister last spring). I also still have passion for him. and it sucks that I do sometimes. I'm doing good at detaching, but wow, the physical stuff lately is not good for me, but also hard for me to avoid. not because of him, because of me, I feed into it...I suck. I want the illusion to be real.

one thing that was really different for us today was he pulled me into his arms, grabbed my head in his hands and started kissing me. I've been fighting the kissing a bit...too intimate, as weird as that sounds, but I gave in to it today. and we kissed forever. I'm talking teenager forever. like we haven't kissed since we first got together forever. just kissing...just omg kissing. I think I've forgotten how to kiss, btw. I swear, I have. It felt foreign. don't get me wrong, we did use to kiss, but moved on a bit quicker to other things. this was really different. I think you are right...maybe that is why I was so emotional later...its me opening up/letting him in way too much.

he sounded really distant on the phone when he called to say goodnight to the kids. I'm not going to read into it, I can think of too many reasons for him sounding like that...both positive and negative. the chances of me coming up with the right reason, without projecting my own wants or fears, is so remote I'm just not going to.

way too much time spent on H here. way too much.

mk, I think your H is making a huge mistake here, and I do think he will realize it one day. cold comfort, but oh what a mistake he is making. your children are so lucky to have you as their mom, that beacon of steadiness and light in an otherwise turbulent time.