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Sorry, but I don't see how HD has proven that at all. No offense HD. I also don't believe your supposition that you cannot change other people. If that were true, how do you account for the Nops?


You cannot change other people, unless you want to abuse and force them into something they would rather not do. This certainly happens in abuse cases, where the "changing other people" is a result of emotionally, verbally or physically abusing them.

NOP did not change me.
I changed me.

NOP changed his own behaviors and attitudes.

I saw his efforts and changes and I made the choice to change me.

Once I changed my behaviors and attitude, NOP saw my changes and he then changed his own behaviors and attitudes some more. This was not a linear process, more closely related to a roller coaster process. But working on ourselves, while expressing our needs to the other - not demanding, not forcing - has resulted in the change in our marriage.

At no point in our relationship did either of us, by great effort of will, change the other person.

You can reason. You can communicate. You can withdraw. You can engage. You can appeal. You can change your responses. You can change your behaviors. You can change your attitudes. You can change what you are and are not willing to do. You can change your life. You can change your schedule. You can change your participation. If you were a rock, you can become like water. If you were like water, you can become a rock. If you were subservient, you can become assertive. If you were assertive, you can become less assertive.

But, you will note that all of these changes are about *you*.

As you change, your spouse will change in response to the new imbalance in the relationship. But, you cannot control how they will change. They may change and become a more compatible spouse, or they may change and go for divorce.

You cannot control which choice they make.

I don't know why that seems so hard for you to grasp. Your wife could leave you tomorrow. You can make that choice less appealing to her by fighting for custody, dragging your feet during the process, being uncooperative within your legal rights - but you cannot merely impose your will upon her and force her to change.

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If for no other reason, it is at least worth a try as it would be a complete 180 to the power struggle they have been going through.


HD has done an incredible job of trying to meet his wife's demands and expectations - imperfectly (as would any human), but he has agreed to and accepted her terms financially, with the housework, spiritually, in regards to childcare, all the way down to how to hang the towels. How controlling is she? He was chastized for picking up his daughter from the church childcare without her permission. He has continued to want a sexual relationship with his wife and has been guilty of unsolicited midnight boob-grabbing. HDa culpa.

That he struggles somewhat on occasion to get his head above the water long enough to pull in a lungful of air does not = power struggle.

That's a drowning man trying to grab a sniff of life before he goes back down under and into the riptide.

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HD does need to keep up his show of strength, he does need to set and hold fast to his boundaries.


Which is all that anyone has actually said he should do.

That some pointed out that his wife's behaviors are outside the pale of normalcy - that some have said (for the dog & bone analogizers) "that dog is behaving dangerously, you need to guard yourself" doesn't mean that opinion is based upon lack of empathy.

I can empathize with a dog who is suffering from rabies or bad training - but that doesn't mean that my empathy must blind me against realizing that the dog is a threat to my life and wellbeing and that I should give creedance to its growls and bites.

MrsNOP -