I stand by what I said. I never said MrsHD, nor any other person with a bipolar type of problem is a normal person who plays by normal rules. But I do know one thing… MrsHD is not stupid and crossing the line from mental/emotional over to physical is something she does understand quite well. So you might say that if she understands this, and she is intelligent, why would she resort to such unethical tactics? I’ll explain below.
But letting the fire rage unabated until she runs out of fuel .... no, no, no. All other considerations aside, what kind of an example of adult behavior will *that* set?
Who said anything about letting the fire rage? The fire cannot rage unabated without fuel from HD. A narcissist NEEDS someone else to draw into the fray. What purpose do you the idea of narcissistic supply serves? What I don’t think you understand is that with some people the fire cannot be “put out.” Trying to do so only fans the flames. Believe me, I know first hand. Tell me this, how exactly would you propose “putting out the fire?”
Are you *seriously* advocating "validating" someone by allowing them to treat you with total disrespect? What kind of f*cked up message does that send?
Yep, that is exactly what I propose. It is not intended to send any message. There is no message to be sent. Any messages that may get out are jumbled and confused any way. Everything is a contradiction. There is only raw emotion, no intellect whatsoever.
Now remember that I think MrsHD does know there is a line between emotional and physical abuse, so beyond that boundary line she can control her actions. But within the boundary she does not recognize any other authority, and as long as she does not go too far, all is fair game.
Whoever above advocated "I will not allow you to speak to me/insult me that way" and "There is no place in our relationship for that kind of statement" is on the right track, IMHO.
Yeah, this is on the right track, but what do you suggest when she gets in HD’s face and says to him exactly what he says he will not tolerate? What then? She will call his bluff immediately. Now he has to decide whether to enforce that boundary. So he leaves. Guess what that will do? It will p*ss her off. She might change the locks, grab the money, who knows what. It will be an escalation. I think it is possible to make a narcissist back down but I think you need to take it so far to the extreme that the action can be self destructive. Best not to go there.
Lil,
You're saying that hairdog can validate his wife by allowing her to wreak vengeance on him until she "gets her fill"?
What propels a narcissist? It is a need to be accepted while trying to cover up whatever faults may exist. There is no one harder on a narcissist that him/herself. When I say HD should let her know that she did in fact hurt him, all I am saying is to do his part to drop the veil of her self delusion. She is angry and wants to project onto HD. So once she thinks she has accomplished this, where is she going to vent her anger? How is she going to keep the projection going? If HD denies that he is hurt, then she has justification to keep going, she has an enemy to fight, for he is not validating her. Take away the enemy and what will she do?
Don’t confuse this approach with a boundary. A boundary feels like a counter attack to a narcissist. The harder you hold to the boundary, the more they feel you are counterattacking, so the more they keep attacking. I think this all has to do with validation because a narcissist is basically insecure. Control itself is really not the issue. The need to control is a consequence of the need for validation. Yeah, its fcked up. I know. If they weren’t fcked up they would be narcissistic, right?
LFL,
I understand him wanting to "logic" his way into putting up with the behaviors of his own W but come on.
Actually, I think you guys are the ones who are trying to “logic” this. You keep saying her actions are insane and she SHOULD be acting some other way. I say this is who she is and how she acts. Plan accordingly.
And frakly Cobra, the behavior of your W AND of you seem wrong to me. I understand the lack of love but what about respect. How can you have a R/M without it?
How can you have respect when you are struggling to hold on to survival? Respect comes a little further down the hierarchy of needs. Once fear has been abated and some security established, then respect can begin.
Personally I think this whole affair with MrsHD is very interesting for us on this board. I know a lot of you have criticized me in the past for being insensitive, uncaring, non-empathic. As I look at all the comments over the past few days bashing MrsHD, I find a lack of understanding and compassion is notably absent. Only Corri seems to get it.
MrsHD is an extreme case and I hope none of you ever have to deal with someone like her. But if you can learn to put yourself into her shoes and understand what makes her tick, what makes her angry, what makes her scared, then I think each of you will have gained a valuable tool for working on your marriage and understanding your spouse. I hope your spouse is not this extreme, so if you can understand MrsHD, then you can understand anyone.
I find it ironic that after all the crap I have taken from everyone about my “lack of empathy” that I am the one preaching to you all to be more understanding. Funny how things work out, isn’t it?
