If you are so inclined, please email me at dufellow2003@yahoo.com
I have something that I would like to briefly discuss with you.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I posted to you "if she can't stand the heat..." it is HER that needs to get out of the kitchen. I was going to reiterate that point again in my post to you yesterday - and now I wish I had. This is not me doing the crowd mentality thing. This is what I was thinking all along. YOU have to kick HER out of the MARITAL bed. It is important that it is that way around. Get back in that bed tonight, when she asks you what you are doing there tell her it's your bed and could she kindly take her frigid self and that dog out of the marital bed unless she is a) prepared to leave the dog out of it b) prepared to be felt up occasionally.
Or words to that effect
You did good by the way. Awesome in fact. But please don't make the mistake of thinking it doesn't matter who moves out of which bed. I told you this stuff was hard but you are getting better at it all the time.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
There is no place in our relationship for those types of statements
Quote:
I will NOT be insulted like that
I think those are good responses to 99% of the BS people talk about on this board. Jumping into the fight is the worst thing you can do. Again, it's a power play. My H is very good about this and has a strong boundary. I called him a name once ("A--hole" I think) and he very calmly but firmly stated something similar to the above. It's clear. There is no room for gray area. Once you allow such disrespect in your household, it is hard to get it under control and often times it just escalates. That seems to be happening in HD's M and I agree fearless, he is not handling it well at all.
BTW, what do you mean by “cooperative” when you say
Oh and one more thing. If my H had been more cooperative, I'd have left his a@@. Just keep that in mind.
I meant that I would have thrown in the towel if he would not have made every single step so difficult. I wasn't ready to end the M and that's what it would have taken just to separate in our case b/c of our kids....can't file for custody when two people are still living together if no D papers have been filed. My point was that if I'd have left before I've done what I've done, things would be over instead of better.
Did I say I was taking any immediate extraordinary action? What about my post indicates that I'm not honoring myself? I think I'm doing a pretty good job of not drowning in her sh!t.
That was meant as an encouraging post HD, not as a critcism of anything you've said or done. To me, you sounded defeated and unsure of the direction you're supposed to take now. If my post did not help or make sense, disregard it because like I said, it was not meant in any way as criticism.
I actually have started wearing some shirts that I had shoved in the back of the drawer because she hated them.
Good for you. Is it possible that all her behavior is nothing more than a reaction to you being more independent? In that case, whether the M ends or flourishes, this is a necessary step and important for you to just keep on keepin on.
As for the bed issue, isn't it different for me and you? My W wants me out of the bed because, either she doesn't trust me to not touch her, or because she was upping the ante (or both). For you, I don't understand why you are STILL out of the bed. WTF? I foresee me being out of my bed for a couple nights, at most.
Yes, it is different for you and me, without a doubt. In my case, I did something inherently wrong. I betrayed my M vows. In my heart of hearts, I know H had every right to kick my behind out of my bed. Why I am still out....well, who knows. That's an issue for my thread and one I don't particularly care to address at all. It's H's deal, not mine and quite frankly it doesn't bother me anymore, perhaps because I can see a light at the end of the tunnel as his attitude change has affected even his opinion on this issue I believe. If you foresee being out of your bed four a couple nights at most, then I guess I'm not sure what the point of any of it is.
HD, I admire your loyalty to your W. I think you're a great guy. My only purpose was to boost your morale, which I apparently incorrectly perceived as sagging a bit.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Once you allow such disrespect in your household, it is hard to get it under control and often times it just escalates. That seems to be happening in HD's M and ..., he is not handling it well at all.
Yeah but not because he is a bad guy at all!!
That's a struggle for men. How to be a nice guy without being a NICE guy.
Of course women have their own issues. How to be a vulnerable woman without being a VULNERABLE woman. And MsHdog certainly has that issue.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I'm certainly not saying HD is a bad guy, I just think he is really not doing well at maintaining the boundaries. That is his responsibility. And all this talk about whether to sleep in the bed, or wear the shirts she hates, or catch her on video, blah blah, is all just more power plays and doomed to failure. Again, without RESPECT in a M, what do you have? Nothing but a f-ed up R. Nothing is going to change until that is established.
MsHdog: I want you to find another bed to sleep in tonight.
And the reason? Quote: I just don't want you in the same bed as me.
Ok, that's easy - YOU find another bed to sleep in because I am quite comfortable in MY bed thank you
HD - DON'T give up your bed. It is giving up your power to her after SHE was wrong! If she doesn't want to sleep in the same bed as you, then let her find other accommodations
If she's not comfortable sleeping with you, then she should go somewhere else. You don't have to fight or argue about it, just don't move.
I totally understand that you're ready to bail... when I joined this board (three years ago this weekend), you were ready to move to the basement. Have things improved substantially since then? In spite of counseling, negotiating, accommodating?
It's not your job to fix her.
corri, apology accepted although I don't know what you're apologizing for. As for my feelings about Mrs. HD, I think I said "I don't give a rat's a$$ about her," and besides, what's this bucket of tar, sack of feathers, and coil of rope doing on my desk? Why did you say I wasn't being hard on her?
And all this talk about whether to sleep in the bed, or wear the shirts she hates, or catch her on video, blah blah, is all just more power plays and doomed to failure. Again, without RESPECT in a M, what do you have? Nothing but a f-ed up R. Nothing is going to change until that is established.
LFL, I agree that respect is critical in a M, but are you saying that you either have it or you don't? From my perspective, respect can be earned and if that's the case, then it follows that there are ways that can be done. Those are not the same for everyone, so if you don't like the example about wearing a shirt Mrs HD hates, then replace it in your mind with a different example for pete's sake. It's just an example of being yourself, which most people tend to respect. They may not like it, but they respect it.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
LFL, I agree that respect is critical in a M, but are you saying that you either have it or you don't? From my perspective, respect can be earned and if that's the case, then it follows that there are ways that can be done. Those are not the same for everyone, so if you don't like the example about wearing a shirt Mrs HD hates, then replace it in your mind with a different example for pete's sake. It's just an example of being yourself, which most people tend to respect. They may not like it, but they respect it.
I agreed with LFL because I viewed it as the difference between wearing what you want because you want to and wearing it because you know your spouse (or mom or anyone) doesn't like it and you're trying to "show them." It's just a difference in attitude. And, I think, LFL's point was that Hdog wearing the shirts in response to the latest "round" rather than Hdog choosing to wear the shirts on his own.
oops. That said I just read where Hdog started wearing the shirts 2 months ago. So great! He did it not in retaliation but as a proactive stance of choosing to wear what he wants to wear.
And for respect issue. I basically believe that if you don't respect yourself, it will be very difficult for others to respect you. Even if they like you, your disrespect of yourself will somehow affect the dynamic. If only because you will PERCEIVE they don't respect you because you'll project your own disrespect onto them. And especially because people do tend to treat people the way people treat themselves.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
LFL, I agree that respect is critical in a M, but are you saying that you either have it or you don't? From my perspective, respect can be earned and if that's the case, then it follows that there are ways that can be done. Those are not the same for everyone, so if you don't like the example about wearing a shirt Mrs HD hates, then replace it in your mind with a different example for pete's sake. It's just an example of being yourself, which most people tend to respect. They may not like it, but they respect it.
I am NOT saying you either have respect or you don't. Do you think I respected my H when he left without a word? No. Did he earn it back and in part demand it back? Yes. Because he knew it would not work any other way. He earned it back through his actions and demanded it back by maintaining his boundaries.
As for HD's shirts, it appears to me he is wearing the shirts to get back at Mrs HD because she is annoying him. It is passive-aggressive. It does not have to do with being himself. And frankly, if I hated a shirt my H wore I would hope that he would respect my opinion. I wouldn't wear clothing my H thought was ugly. But that's me.
