Heather, Good post. Looks like your eyes have opened. BTW, what do you mean by “cooperative” when you say
Oh and one more thing. If my H had been more cooperative, I'd have left his a@@. Just keep that in mind.
HD,
MrsHD is starting to flail in all directions. It will probably get worse. The more you stand steady and do nothing, the more she will try to get a reaction out of you and the more extreme her actions will become. Prepare for this HD. It think it would be good if you could somehow record what goes on when she hits one of these coming rages. This will be very touch and go and may feel wrong to you, but I say this for two reasons.
The first is that if you do D, then her lunatic actions will help your case. The other is that if you two stay together and try to work things out, she will absolutely not recall ever having acted as you see her. Her recollection of her actions will be completely opposite to the what actually happened and you will end up arguing over what the facts are instead of working on the M. That is how deep her denial runs.
But there is nothing that can shake her out of her denial like seeing herself go crazy on video. She will have no clue that she acts that way and says the things she says. While this may sound like an inflammatory tactic (and it is) it may be the one tool strong enough to open her eyes (a little). Of course you will have to decide how and when best to use that information. I never could do this on video but there were times I wish I had.
I wouldn’t trust MrsHD to provide her a good role model when you aren’t around.
Well, I knew you were going to say that because I'm sure you think the same of your W. But I disagree. I think the dysfunction comes from the INTERACTIONS between the two of you. This is probably true for HD and MRSHD as well as Heather and Mr Heather. My main point is that if these two adults can't get their sh*t together enough to act civil/respectful to each other in their own home, than what chance do these chidlren have as they grow and are immersed in this environment. To me, some of these chilren would be better off if they did not see their parents daily powerplays.
Following a night of little to no communicating, me sleeping in our bed, and getting up, getting ready, as usual, I was sitting downstairs, waiting for my DS15 and DD12, so that I could take them to school and their mom's, respectively. MsHdog came downstairs to let the dogs out. Sat down in a chair across the room from me.
MsHdog: I want you to find another bed to sleep in tonight. HD: (Long pause) Uh...did I grab your boob again or something? W: No. I just don't want you in the same bed as me. HD: Fine. I haven't felt comfortable there, anyway. W: Well, then why don't you just find another place to live. HD: Yeah. I'll get to work on that.
I had just read Corri's post right before this conversation, and, although I was thinking about this:
[..]
But to me, "find another place" is the same as "I'm done" or "I want a divorce" or similar threats, and my thinking is, if she's upping the ante to get a reaction (namely, me crawling back, asking for forgiveness), that's not going to happen. If she said it because she wants me to move out, then, folks, I'm ready, and I am not going to give her a bunch of reasons why we need to stay together anymore. I've played that game too many times and it wears me out, wears me down and, let's face it, even when the relationship is on a good footing, I've got a partner who wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire. Sorry, corri, but I realized over the vacation with her, when I had severe stomach cramps and she had ZERO empathy for me and ZERO patience with me that all her complaints about MY lack of empathy were just projection.
So, where am I now? Well, I don't just have a case of don'tgiveashititis . . . I'm on the Planet of Don'tgiveashit. I just blew up my rocketship and, she can figure out her own damn way to bring me back to Earth. Frankly, I'm here, I'm comfortable with it, and aside from obligations I have to fulfill in shuttling kids to and fro, I'm calm. Oh. And I'm not afraid.
So, what's going to happen? I'm working on it. I don't know. But I will state here and now that, if anything happens involving me groveling back to her for forgiveness, I want someone, anyone, to come out here and shoot me.
Hairdog
*slow and steady clapping*
Fabulous, hairdog. Fantastic. THIS mindset will get you somewhere with her. I can't tell you if to a divorce or to a much better marriage, because it could go either way, but this is the ONLY way to get to a better marriage, with someone like her. Y'did great.
You don't have to take an immediate extraordinary action or leave or change overnight. It just means you have to stop being overwhelmed by what SHE does and says and feels and start honoring YOU.
Did I say I was taking any immediate extraordinary action? What about my post indicates that I'm not honoring myself? I think I'm doing a pretty good job of not drowning in her sh!t.
Quote:
That can be so very small at first (insisting on making your favorite meal now and then even though she hates it, wearing your favorite shirt even though she doesn't like it, refusing to leave your bed, etc) and you just build on it and build on it for however long it takes until you have to confidence to tell her to straighten up or get the fkc out.
I actually have started wearing some shirts that I had shoved in the back of the drawer because she hated them. Started this about two months ago. Since she started her diet a couple months ago, I don't cook for her at all anymore. I eat what appeals to me. As for the bed issue, isn't it different for me and you? My W wants me out of the bed because, either she doesn't trust me to not touch her, or because she was upping the ante (or both). For you, I don't understand why you are STILL out of the bed. WTF? I foresee me being out of my bed for a couple nights, at most. And, you know what? With the darned puppy sleeping in the bed, moving all around and, so far, peeing twice on the bed, I'm actually relieved to be sleeping elsewhere. Let her deal with the dog by herself.
HD - this is NOT about the puppy, it is about HER making YOUR choices for you. If she doesn't want to sleep in the same bed with you SHE can move to another bed and the puppy can go with her
Why should you sacrifice your bed and sleep for HER problem?
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I realized over the vacation with her, when I had severe stomach cramps and she had ZERO empathy for me and ZERO patience with me that all her complaints about MY lack of empathy were just projection.
Hairdog, I am puzzled ( and saddened) by this. When did the relationship deteriorate to this level?
For all the the talk about boundaries on this forum, MsHdog is a great example of having a boundary, making it clear it's a boundary, reacting strongly when the boundary is crossed and staying strong about it. Granted it's a dysfunctional, crazy, twisted, messed up, etc. boundary but nonetheless it is a boundary. And Hdog crossed it. That's okay and I don't believe he's a "bad guy" for crossing it. Maybe this is what he wanted to initiate by crossing it.
For me though, if someone had a boundary that I thought was messed up, I wouldn't just cross it to see if they change their mind. And if someone crossed my irrational boundary (fear of heights if you must know. Although I am not sure that it is really irrational in my case) to test me, I wouldn't react well either. For me, I would prefer talking about it AWAY from the boundary. So in Hdog's case I would have recommended that he set up an appointment with a Sex Therapist AND approach Ms Hdog with "MsHog, I understand you are uncomfortable with physical contact from me. However I am uncomfortable with a relationship with you where my physical contact with you is a problem. I have set up an appointment because we both need to have this issue resolved in EACH of ours best interest. I don't want to ride rough shod over your needs but I also cannot have you riding rough shod over MY needs. Each of our needs are EQUALLY important in this marriage."
Again I stress that I think Hdog IS a great guy and that his wife OBVIOUSLY has MAJOR issues. I just happen to think that his way of dealing with those issues seems to go between giving in, begging, supplicating, etc. (weak) AND tweaking her soft spots, initiating known hot points, being defiant, forcing her to escalate to protect herself from (perceived) danger, etc. (sorry but still weak in my view.) Again PLEASE don't take this as an insult but as another POV. I happen to see most of Hdog's behavior as TWO sides of the SAME coin and not really different. A teenager who sneaks out of the house is NOT strong but is weak. Sure they are defying their parents but not in a strong way.
Also remember that Hdog left the bed FIRST. So now MsHdog is trying to find the control by now asking him to leave the bed. Quite frankly I don't know why he wouldn't. It could be a boundary that she needs to get it figured out why a husband touching his wife is inappropriate. I would say that sex therapy would be crucial for both of them.
and my thinking is, if she's upping the ante to get a reaction (namely, me crawling back, asking for forgiveness), that's not going to happen.
That's absolutely what I thought when I read your dialog this morning. I think being resolute will help you. With all respect to Heather I don't see your situation as similar. Her H was/is punishing her. Your wife is trying to get a reaction. She "knows" you want to sleep with her.
Oh and back to the comparison of you and a "rapist." I see that as her manipulating you rather than her believing that. I may be VERY wrong but I'm sure she knows you are a nice guy and of course comparing you to scum would obviously HURT you. That said, there is no excuse for it. It just seems obvious to me that it is the tactic of someone who is scared to death. She's scared so in return she tried to scare you Again that said, you shouldn't put up with it at all. I would have immediately called her on her bluff. I would have said in a QUIET and STRONG voice "If you really believe that I could EVER do something like drugging and raping you, then what in the HE!! are even doing with me? I will NOT be insulted like that. If you DON'T believe I could drug and rape you, then you better NEVER throw such an accusation at me again. There is no place in our relationship for those types of statements."
Again to be clear I don't see ANYTHING appropriate about MsHdog's opinions, statements and actions. I just don't necessarily believe that Hdog has approached things from the strongest angle either and I want to encourage him to be strong.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
