This (correcting someone) is what my dear friend referred to when he said, "You're right . . . but you're still an azzhole."
I have tried to curb this behavior, but realized that, damn it...it is so genuinely me, that you can go ahead and hate the sin but love the sinner.
Yeah, I've read that when they're profiling rapists, they look for guys who go around correcting other people's grammar and psychological and Greek references.
One of the things I like most about you is that you know the difference between YOU'RE and YOUR.
I'm gonna start handing out black marks on Permanent Record Cards for that one... and mixing up ITS and IT'S, too.
I don’t know what the “Plathian boot” is, but I find it hard to believe that even MrsHD wants sex with a man as brutal as her father. I think that is absurd. Assuming her father was brutal, it might be that she holds a grudge toward men because of this. But while she would like a more gentle caring man, not having grown up with such a role model makes it very uncomfortable for her to be around one. A gentle caring man means she must open up and be caring too. THAT is the scary part for her and that is what she is having her internal struggle over.
I was referring to Sylvia Plath's much anthologized poem "Daddy"
Quote:
Not God but a swastika So black no sky could squeak through. Every woman adores a Fascist, The boot in the face, the brute Brute heart of a brute like you.
I had a gentle father but I can understand what is meant by the vibe of this poem. I was sexually attracted to my 2bx because of his brutal personality but emotionally damaged. My father was warm and affectionate so all I need to feel emotionally vulnerable or open in a relationship is physical affection. My 2bx, for various reasons, was not able to be very physically affectionate so he tried to make me emotionally vulnerable by making me cry. I like my "just sex" on the jolly side of rough (laugh when I tease you)or the rough side of jolly (smile as you pin me down)which pretty much corresponds with how my father used to play with me. The fact that my H went quite a bit darker than this wasn't enough to turn me off because I could bring the jolly (which maybe turned him off). So I guess I buy into the whole Electra concept thing even though the thought of my father as a sexual being is totally "Blech" to me. I think it's more that your father models for you how a man ought to behave.
Therefore, I think MsHD might have some pretty dark *ss sexual fantasies if she allowed herself to have them. Probably she doesn't and that's why she's not sexual.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I think everyone here, minus cobra and lil, are being very unfair to Mrs. HD. IMHO.
Cobra and Lil: Well... at least Lil, cuz I've already apologized to Cobra for this... but Lil... I stuck you in my box version of Lil. And I apologize to you for that. I think, in so doing, I may have said some things to you that might have hurt you. If I did, I'm sorry. That was not my intent... but. Well, there you go. I did it. I'm sorry. And I will work on my spelling.
Cobra... now that I am trying very hard to remove the box I put you in, I can see you in an entirely different light... even your posts... and dam it man, you make me chuckle. A dog with a bone.... and I SOOOOO get that.... a la Lou.
Cac... sorry, Mrs. HD, I don't think, is a man-hater, and I think it highly unfair for you to label her so. You don't know her, you've never talked to her... we hear about her through HD... and though HD gets hurt by her (which sets us all off), there are also many, many things he loves about her.
IMHO... Mrs. HD is operating right now at DEVCON 20.3, and doesn't even KNOW it. While she is at that level, she is really hurting HD, which none of us like.
That does not mean she is a throw away, unredeemable person. You cannot fix what you cannot see. And she cannot SEE right now. It does not make one thing she does excusable. Not one. But HD is not ready to throw her away BCUZ he knows there are things that he has done in the past to contribute to her mess.
He wants to clean up his own mess before he thinks about throwing her away... as I see it, anyway. In her DEVCON 20.3 stage (and it may get way higher HD... probably will)... if she hits a boundary of his... and he will know it if it happens... all bets may be off. HD's call.
In my mind, Mrs. HD is doing nothing out of character, because it is very obvious to me SHE THINKS she is feeling threatened. She isn't, but she doesn't KNOW that. All she knows is what she feels. What has triggered those feelings is the change in HD. She doesn't KNOW that. It just feels the same to her.
And I'm sorry... when you are in a heightened state of emotion... no... you cannot rationalize. Even a sharp cookie like Mrs. HD.
That one went right over me. The only thing I can think of is that I was born in the year of the dog. Oh, I'm libra too.... but I've never wanted a bone.... wait a minute, what kind of "bone" are you talking about?
I think everyone here, minus cobra and lil, are being very unfair to Mrs. HD. IMHO.
Yeah. She bandied the rape word about and used it in referance to HD. Said she couldnt know if he wasnt drugging and raping her. From breast cupping?
She is a model of fairness, and sanity, and we are not.
The SOP for Women who are really traumatized is to say nothing.
and yet, This woman who shares his bed and has zero fear of him, who we know is a mensch, a lawyer for the government, a 6, is handed this plate of crap. She is so out of control, I cant even verbalize it right.
That conversation would not have ended without anything other then a complete and sincere apology. If she thinks you are capable of raping her, she needs to be with someone else.
Ive played the conquer and surrender sex games, and never ever worried about it. x lied about me about a lot of things during our first seperation, but I cant even imagine her accusing me of rape. I had a gf who was pretty sturdy, right before I left cali, that liked to fight and wrestle with some significant seriousness. She would have bruises on her from my fingertips, and I never worried about such an accusation.
HD may in fact be confidant in his ability to handle it, if she went that route. but why? Risking it shows a lack of well being, and self protection. Im not saying to leave, but it has got to be addressed with a boundary. I ignore a lot of what people say in the heat of the moment. But not this. not from her, not in the manner it was done, not in the intent with which it is carried.
Corri it sounds like maybe you are emotional with things in this post. Or maybe you have just a little bit of Mrs. HD in you so you can understand more.
To a lot of us this behavior is absurd. Also to use threats about his children to hurt him is mean. I know you are a single mom right now. What would you do if a man used your very own children as a weapon against you? These are children and don't deserve this. I can imagine there is a lot of anger that comes from ex wife. Because I know I wouldn't tolerate and would speak up on issues if my children were being treated wrong.
Example I control the finances. You pissed me off today so no more college money for them. Even though I as an ATTORNEY know this is something you have to pay for or be in contempt. No more pudding for those kid's of yours. I bought that for my daughter. Those kid's of yours better stop going home and telling things about our life. She just seems to have a lot of anger towards those children. I didn't see her threaten her own daughter.
Following a night of little to no communicating, me sleeping in our bed, and getting up, getting ready, as usual, I was sitting downstairs, waiting for my DS15 and DD12, so that I could take them to school and their mom's, respectively. MsHdog came downstairs to let the dogs out. Sat down in a chair across the room from me.
MsHdog: I want you to find another bed to sleep in tonight. HD: (Long pause) Uh...did I grab your boob again or something? W: No. I just don't want you in the same bed as me. HD: Fine. I haven't felt comfortable there, anyway. W: Well, then why don't you just find another place to live. HD: Yeah. I'll get to work on that.
I had just read Corri's post right before this conversation, and, although I was thinking about this:
Quote:
Mrs. HD is operating right now at DEVCON 20.3, and doesn't even KNOW it. [. . .] That does not mean she is a throw away, unredeemable person. You cannot fix what you cannot see. And she cannot SEE right now. [. . .] In my mind, Mrs. HD is doing nothing out of character, because it is very obvious to me SHE THINKS she is feeling threatened. [. . .]
So, yeah, the statement about finding another place to live comes from a place of fear. However, I was also thinking about this:
Quote:
He wants to clean up his own mess before he thinks about throwing her away... as I see it, anyway. In her DEVCON 20.3 stage (and it may get way higher HD... probably will)... if she hits a boundary of his... and he will know it if it happens... all bets may be off. HD's call.
To me, the boundary was threatened when she made the comment about the bed, but, since I'd been thinking about the problems with that anyway, it was too fuzzy of a boundary to enforce.
But to me, "find another place" is the same as "I'm done" or "I want a divorce" or similar threats, and my thinking is, if she's upping the ante to get a reaction (namely, me crawling back, asking for forgiveness), that's not going to happen. If she said it because she wants me to move out, then, folks, I'm ready, and I am not going to give her a bunch of reasons why we need to stay together anymore. I've played that game too many times and it wears me out, wears me down and, let's face it, even when the relationship is on a good footing, I've got a partner who wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire. Sorry, corri, but I realized over the vacation with her, when I had severe stomach cramps and she had ZERO empathy for me and ZERO patience with me that all her complaints about MY lack of empathy were just projection.
So, where am I now? Well, I don't just have a case of don'tgiveashititis . . . I'm on the Planet of Don'tgiveashit. I just blew up my rocketship and, she can figure out her own damn way to bring me back to Earth. Frankly, I'm here, I'm comfortable with it, and aside from obligations I have to fulfill in shuttling kids to and fro, I'm calm. Oh. And I'm not afraid.
So, what's going to happen? I'm working on it. I don't know. But I will state here and now that, if anything happens involving me groveling back to her for forgiveness, I want someone, anyone, to come out here and shoot me.
Do you know anything about bipolar disorder, or manic depressives, or other types of mood swings? Do you know what some of the causes are for narcissism and how narcissists react? MrsHD exhibits signs off all these things. IMO it is only a matter of degree and which best fits her.
My mom used to threaten to cut off funding for college expenses for my brothers and myself. It didn’t happen every month, but several times a year. Its sort of like the heavy smoker saying he is going to stop smoking for good, again. The threat is completely hollow. MrsHD might follow through to some extent for a little while. Maybe she gets mad enough to cut off funding the savings account for a month or two. But that’s about as long as I can see her lasting.
You think MrsHD is tough? She’s NOTHING compared to how my mother used to be.
To a lot of us this behavior is absurd.
Sure it is, but you cannot judge this behavior using the perspective of a “normal” person. Nothing will make sense. You have to get into MrsHD’s shoes to understand her, and unless you’ve personally experienced someone like that, it is hard to do.
Oh, one other thing. It is quite normal for MrsHD to not attack her own daughter right now. She is still young and compliant to MrsHD. MrsHD still feels like the protector, which gives her more reason to be defensive. Her daughter is her purpose. But wait until that girl becomes a teenager. The whole relationship will turn as that same girl becomes a challenge and threat to MrsHD. The sparks will fly then and the daughter will come to realize as I did, that the mother is not someone you can rely on.
