I think you're answers were perfect and I think you may already understand one way of you can deal with that self critical voice. I had a feeling that you would, I also have a feeling that your allot stronger and together that you judge yourself to be.
Yeah, I do feel kinda "together" today. Will last probably till I over-personalize the next negative thing to come my way.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I just this might amuse you. Some 16 year old girls were watching The Pick-Up Artist at my house this afternoon. They were doing obnoxious voice-overs for the departing contestant along the lines of "I don't care that you kicked me off because I'm gay anyway." I asked them if they thought Mystery was attractive and they said "No. He's hideous.He wears leopard print."
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
ROFL. Apparently he has had some success, but I'm willing to bet he and his cronies have some narcissism problems, and are probabaly more "legends in their own mind." I do remember when I first saw that big black hat I thought ... WTF? It looked like something out of a Monty Python sketch. On Conan he said it was called "peacocking" or wearing something unusual to garner attention and to have something to talk about. He suggested binoculars around the neck, or goggles. Conan really hammered him on the goggles thing. You should do a search on Youtube for "mystery conan o'brien" and watch the video. Like I said he did come across rather mild-mannered and genuine, but who really knows. Not me, I'm a horrible judge of character.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Where does this come from? Is it external or internal. Its a feeling. Its internal. true or false-> You are no longer in a sexless/starved marriage. You and Your W have made huge strides.
Your perception should control your reality. Your emotions are controlling your perception, so you are up down all over.
Your still my friend Chrome and will continue to be (unless you steal my next W or something equivalent) I told you what insulted me, told you what I wouldnt accept again, and was very specific about what the consequence would be. The consequence was not, Fcck off and die, I will never speak to you again.
and ended up insulting someone in the process, Big Fat hairy deal. So what. You think Im going to die from an insult, intentional or otherwise? I cross peoples boundaries. They let me know its unacceptable and I quit. Thats it. I just stop the action. "Oh. Ok. Thanks for letting me know.'
I do appreciate the fact that you have tried to be my friend despite the fact that I am what you despise.
Are you currently lying or cheating? If you are not, then you are not what I despise, so I recommend forgiving yourself, and not lumping yourself in that category anymore. I was really pissed before for your deceit to me. You knew it.
That just seems to happen a lot to me. Whats wrong with this statement?
I was able to stay focused and in the moment, and was very open about what I wanted from my W, and was able to O without the fantasy. And I think she had a good time too. Thats awesome. Im really happy for you.
I don't now how to express my feelings very well without words. I know that words kill the emotion. Specifically I don't know how to show anger without thinking I'm coming across as pouty, or being afraid of my rage. Don't know if that makes sense.
Words can kill or amplify. Before you can express it, You have to know what your emotion is first, and not be afraid of other persons response to it first. It took you 2 days to realize you were angry that your W was on the computer. But thats not what you said (thankfully, because she needs alone time too) you tried to hide it-- which is why your first comment was supplicating. You dont compliment someone when you are angry at them, its inauthentic.
I've been deluding myself about my confidence, level of attractiveness, and R intelligence,
Yes you have been deluding yourself about your level of appeal/attractiveness, but in a negative way. Your the only one who doesnt see you as attractive. You have everything going for you. Stop taking it away from yourself. Yes. You. I didnt take it away from you yesterday. I was irritated by one little thing. Thats my problem and my job to implement a boundary about it. You cascaded it into everything else. This does not make you stupid. Your confidance is also just that. Yours. You have what you have in differant areas. Can I take your confidance away in scientific areas? Why not?
I said: Boundary: I will not live in a sexless/affectionless marriage.
Blackfoot replied: But you did. So why are you saying that? Untill your ready to back it up, it looks like posturing.
That is the core of my problem eh? One thing that is clear to me is that I don't know how to enforce boundaries, which of course makes them not really boundaries if they're not enforced, which means I don't really have boundaries, which ... this is the point where my head starts to spin.
You dont know how to enforce boundaries, because you dont know what yours are. If your W said tonight, Im sick of having sex with you. Im done with it. What would you do? How would you react? This is a trick question.
Again, a joke. I was just trying to poke fun, get a rise, like I do with some of my other male friends, tease and all. I made a poor assumption and I do sincerely apologize for it. Won't happen again.
Ok. You got a rise. Mission accomplished. Maybe not how you planned though.
So. OK. Once was more then enough. I didnt ask for an apology. Since you didnt accidently run my nephew over, probably one time too many. move on. If I or OP cant move on and let it go, thats my problem. continuing to aplogize and feeding there/their/they're overreaction, is being a doormat.
Sorry if my humor is in poor taste.
Your humor is yours. If it made you laugh, great. If it offends me, Ill do what I need to. Not your problem.
Its really not your problem if I misunderstand your meaning. Instead of calling yourself stupid, (which is patently ridiculous astrophysicist -reality) Why dont you try finding a differant word for your feeling. Confused. bewildered. [insert your own here]
Contrary to how it may seem to you (and perhaps other), I do really love my W and plan to stick this out.
This is another joke, right? After our conversation on Mt. Lemmon, and your honorable actions when we were out and about together, you think I dont know this.
I'm just afraid of myself, making too many mistakes, not feeling the way I'm supposed to, failing so much and so often. And that fear is a vicious loop I'm having a hard time getting out of, even in two years.
Feeling the way your supposed to? Try just identifying how you feel, first. There is no grade, only you can fail you. yes it is a vicious loop. It is hard. How old are you? multiply that by 2 and thats how many months its likely to take you to get mostly out of it. you have a ways to go yet.
And I'm sorry about polluting the board with my stupidity.
HAHAHAH! polluting the board. one thread in one forum on a tiny speck of a BB on the WWW. I think we should shut down Al Gore's invention before you poison the world. What do you think?
My question to Hap arose out of being pissed off (not at Hap BTW) by the suggestion that it was my fault if my W decides she isn't attracted to me and that I have to keep pursuing and pursuing or else she may go find someone else to be attracted to. The implication in my mind was that its the man's sole responsibility to keep the flame alive, and if he doesn't, the woman can't be blamed for her lack of attraction
Ok you were Pissed. but again thats not what you expressed, and there was no hint of your irritation.
So what is the W's role in this ongoing wooing game? Keeping herself good looking and being fun to be around and interested in the man? Strutting her stuff on occasion to catch the man's eye? Or is the man supposed to just keep wooing no matter what, or the woman finds someone else? blackfoot replied why are you asking hap about what you want to receive. Thats for you to decide.
I really don't understand what you mean here.
1. The extra negative comment (That I left out) was not needed. Do you tell your students that stupid questions are not allowed in your class? NO. Stop the flagellation. before LFL breaks a nail.
2.What you want from a woman is for you to determine. Its up to her to determine if she wants to give it. and vice versa
apparently your asking your W what you want to receive also. If you dont know, how is she going too?
I also am spinning a bit on this one.
So is what you are saying is that I should just clearly state what I want and the let the chips fall as they may?
YES! Your questions did come off as supplicating. Chrome feels angry. Chrome squases feeling. Chrome supplicates. See a trend?
I should chase for the chase and separate that from the desired outcome of her surrender, which is not based on chasing? You chase a woman, because you KNOW she wants to be caught. If you dont KNOW, if she doesnt want to be caught, you are just chasing your tail. Do you KNOW your W wants to be caught?
And one more thing, the comment about "using lines", "authenticity", "false rapport" and all that. The fact of the matter is we have all used "lines." How many times have people come on here and said "why don't you say something like this or that." The difference is in the motivation. When I said "not my best line" I was saying that I was trying to be funny and playful, but I realized after that fact that what I said was just silly. It was NOT inauthentic, I truly did want her to sit in my lap, I truly did want to cuddle with her, I truly do love her and want to be M to her for the rest of my life. Poor judgement in what to say does not equal inauthentic. And another thing, what is authentic? 3 years ago, authentic to me was that I was an utter loser whom women found ugly and I didn't deserve a good sex life. You and others tried to show me that was a false sense of self, and urged me to act in ways that DID NOT FEEL AUTHENTIC AT THE TIME, until I got it.
This reply is a HECK of a lot better then the first one. How do you feel about it? How do you feel about the first one?
true or false-> You are no longer in a sexless/starved marriage. You and Your W have made huge strides.
Yes we have, yet we still have quite a ways to go. We are still dancing around each other, rather than going cheek to cheek. I would say I am still on the border of a sex starved marriage. On average, we do it once every week and a half. This is better than before for sure, but still not up to the 2-3 times a week I would consider a minimum for myself to be satisfied.
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Your perception should control your reality. Your emotions are controlling your perception, so you are up down all over.
Yes, I understand that. I think one of my problems is that when someone "yanks my chain", I tend to gain a lot of inertia and swing WAY past where a normal person would go.
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Your still my friend Chrome and will continue to be (unless you steal my next W or something equivalent)
Well, make it easy on yourself and choose someone who is unattractive to me.
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The consequence was not, Fcck off and die, I will never speak to you again.
/nerdmode{on}
FOR sentence structure analysis DO BEGIN
diagram assumption 1 Consequence = NOT feck off and die, IS I will never speak to you again
diagram assumption 2 Consequence = NOT feck off and die, NOR I will never speak to you again
working under assumption 2
ENDFOR
/nerdmode{off} (well, sortof)
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I said: That just seems to happen a lot to me. You said: Whats wrong with this statement?
Lack of a feeling of control of the situation
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It took you 2 days to realize you were angry that your W was on the computer. But thats not what you said (thankfully, because she needs alone time too) you tried to hide it-- which is why your first comment was supplicating. You dont compliment someone when you are angry at them, its inauthentic.
But I wasn't aware of my anger, and I have been making an effort to be more positive in my interactions toward her. I can see how my actions CAME OFF as inauthentic, but the intention was not.
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Can I take your confidance away in scientific areas? Why not?
Yeah well my confidence in matters scientific doesn't help me in my M. I need to be universally confident.
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If your W said tonight, Im sick of having sex with you. Im done with it. What would you do? How would you react? This is a trick question.
I would like to say that I would insist on MC or else D, but I would probably just get really hurt and withdraw.
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Instead of calling yourself stupid, (which is patently ridiculous astrophysicist -reality) Why dont you try finding a differant word for your feeling. Confused. bewildered. [insert your own here]
Being an astrophysicist does not exempt me from stupid behavior. In fact many of us nerdy-types can act ridiculously stupid in non-science areas (and some in science areas). Confused and bewildered work also.
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I said: Contrary to how it may seem to you (and perhaps other), I do really love my W and plan to stick this out.
You replied: This is another joke, right? After our conversation on Mt. Lemmon, and your honorable actions when we were out and about together, you think I dont know this.
Nope, not a joke. That was in response to the statements about "do you want to be a PUA and fake your way into your W's heart?" I don't remember acting honorably (or dishonorably) when we were out and about. I remember a gay guy pinching my nipple, some women (I think) trying to bump and grind on me, a waitress giving me a random hug (probably because I was one of the few guys in the bar that WASN'T trying to hit on her or feed her some stupid line), some people playing dominos (dominos?), me kicking your a$$ in pool, and you losing your camera. And I do remember having a LONG conversation in front of the hotel, so much so that we made the management nervous. LOL
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Try just identifying how you feel, first.
I'm trying, just not succeeding very well.
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HAHAHAH! polluting the board. one thread in one forum on a tiny speck of a BB on the WWW. I think we should shut down Al Gore's invention before you poison the world. What do you think?
I think I was in the CoU chair at that point.
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Ok you were Pissed. but again thats not what you expressed, and there was no hint of your irritation.
Really? I thought it was obvious. So I guess not only do I not know what I'm feeling, when I do, nobody else does. Great.
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Do you tell your students that stupid questions are not allowed in your class? NO. Stop the flagellation. before LFL breaks a nail.
LFL was just upset because her H and I both act like doormats and she was taking it out on me, in her own sweet way.
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YES! Your questions did come off as supplicating. Chrome feels angry. Chrome squases feeling. Chrome supplicates. See a trend?
Yep.
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You chase a woman, because you KNOW she wants to be caught. If you dont KNOW, if she doesnt want to be caught, you are just chasing your tail. Do you KNOW your W wants to be caught?
No I don't.
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This reply is a HECK of a lot better then the first one.
How do you feel about it? How do you feel about the first one?
It felt good because I didn't feel like I was "bowing" to someone. I think its pretty clear I feel just a little foolish about spewing on the board earlier this week.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
LFL was just upset because her H and I both act like doormats and she was taking it out on me, in her own sweet way.
Well, you and my H are similar in many ways so maybe there was some transference going on there. But I feel good about where our M is going and I truly want you to be happy too. I see how the "doormat" behaviors of my H's past led to all sorts of problems and hate to see you carrying out those behaviors yourself. Thus, my tirade about throwing the computer across the room listening to too many "sorrys" from you. And obviously your tendency to catastrophize every negative thing you hear doesn't help. You are a great guy. You are a very smart man. You are a respectful and respectable person. You have all the ingredients to make your M work. Your W is lucky to have you. Now you just have to believe that and act accordingly. Even with all your mistakes. I have to believe that. My H has to believe that. Otherwise, we will not respect Ourselves. And if you can't respect yourself, like yourself, be good to yourself, you cannot be good to your spouse. Can you believe I'm still learning all this crap?
LFL said Now you just have to believe that and act accordingly. Even with all your mistakes.
What mistakes? I have not seen any mistakes by you. You were thrown into the world totally unprepared, in fact, you actually had to face life and relationships from a negative starting point. Everything you did was the best you could as you tried to feel your way forward, to climb out of your hole. You had no help, no guidance, you did it all on your own. You were learning as you went. How are you to know whether to turn left or right when coming to a new and unknown fork in the road? You made no mistakes.
Don't be hard on yourself because you see others around you who had the benefit of starting from a positive position and having guidance each step of the way. That is not a fair comparison. IMO, you have more to be proud of than so many others who seem to have done everything "right." They have no idea what is down that other fork in the road.
overreaction, is being a doormat.
