Another way to look at it is that MsHD never acts sexy or sexual so in her mind if HD wants to have sex with her basically he just wants to use her for her girl parts. What she doesn't understand is that HD would actually like to achieve emotional connection with her through sexuality. However, she is far, far away from allowing herself to be that vulnerable. Therefore, she needs HD to render her vulnerable through deliberate brutality. In a sense what I mean is she won't spread her legs to reveal the "wound" so he needs to pin her down and do it for her. I just wonder if there's enough brass in the world to coat HD's balls for that assignment.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Speaking of references to Jerry Maguire, "you had me at 'hello'", but you lost me right here: she won't spread her legs to reveal the "wound" so he needs to pin her down and do it for her. Well, if grabbin' her boob in the middle of the night won't give me a free ticket to the hoosegow, this might.
Or maybe it's just another famous MJ analogy. Either way, I've ordered my set, so I should be prepared, when the opportunity arises, so to speak.
Frankly, I'm still creepin' out about the whole sex with her dad thing, in spite of the fact that it kind of makes sense, in a sideways anti-abandonment, Electra-complex kind of way. God bless (if you are so inclined) Wikipedia.
First I’d like to address this one comment of yours….
I would be very surprised if she didn't if HD did as I suggest. Were you surprised that my 2bx kept hitting on me sexually after he found out I was dating other men?
I assume you are thinking that your ex started hitting on you because you gave up the pursuit and his abandonment kicked in so he started to pursue you, right? That could be, I don’t know. But I think it as likely that he needed to get you back under his influence so he could start to abuse you again with his anger. That would be more in line with how I understand a narcissist thinks. The focus is always on what they need to avoid their vulnerability. Admitting that he misses you would be too weak for him to own up to. I question how much of his hitting on you was out of love. If it was, it sure didn’t last too long. Have you read up on what motivates the abusive narcissist? It is not love.
I don't agree with you that letting some fusion seep back in is the solution. Fusion is never good.
Not in the long run, but to stabilize a marriage in order to cool emotions enough to start therapy work, fusion is often what counselors end up recommending, whether they know it or not.
I will use you as an example. You think that you are staying in your marriage for the sake of the kids. You are wrong. If you were really staying in your marriage for the sake of the kids you wouldn't give a flying fig whether your wife was nice to you or wanted to have sex with you. Let's say I told you that I would give each of your kids a million dollars and the key to eternal happiness if you came and lived with me as my fake husband and behaved in a civil and celibate fashion for the next 10 years. Would you take my offer?
You know this example is preposterous. Money is a factor with my kids, but not the overriding one. Hoping to get to a stable home life to counter act some of the damage they have endured is part of the reason I stay. Wanting to get to a good relationship and home life is part of my reasons too. Allowing the kids to live with both my wife and myself is part. But if there were no kids, I’d hop right out of this marriage tomorrow and into a new R as soon as I could find a good one.
MsHd unconsciously wants to have sex with a man as brutal as her father. She wants the Plathian boot.
I don’t know what the “Plathian boot” is, but I find it hard to believe that even MrsHD wants sex with a man as brutal as her father. I think that is absurd. Assuming her father was brutal, it might be that she holds a grudge toward men because of this. But while she would like a more gentle caring man, not having grown up with such a role model makes it very uncomfortable for her to be around one. A gentle caring man means she must open up and be caring too. THAT is the scary part for her and that is what she is having her internal struggle over.
Therefore, she needs HD to render her vulnerable through deliberate brutality. In a sense what I mean is she won't spread her legs to reveal the "wound" so he needs to pin her down and do it for her.
Sorry, IMO you are completely off your rocker if you believe this!!
Guys: It's called the Oedipus complex. As if you didn't know.
All women unconsciously want to sleep with their fathers. It doesn't matter how brutal that father may be, that's who they want.
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Therefore, she needs HD to render her vulnerable through deliberate brutality. In a sense what I mean is she won't spread her legs to reveal the "wound" so he needs to pin her down and do it for her.
Sorry, IMO you are completely off your rocker if you believe this!!
This is meant metaphorically. The "wound" is her vulnerability through sexuality. She won't have sex with HD because she won't be vulnerable with him. Mojo is saying he needs to force her to be vulnerable. I agree. He can only do this by strapping on that brass set (again metaphorically!). Her kick ass behaviours are all about stepping into the man shaped hole (as Mrs Nop once put it) in their M. And to her a man is somewhat brutal. She is really not comfortable in that man shaped hole but she does not trust HD to fill it. He has given her no reason to believe he can fill it.
But he will.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I'm w/ Mrs NOP and lou on this one. she's dangerous.
Corri, its not that HD is in danger of being charged for this particular incident; its that she has revealed the potential for setting up something worse in the future.
She's a man-hater. not just a "man hater", but a professional man-hater, who makes her living exacting revenge ("justice") on men every day, for their transgressions against the "fairer" sex. {insert eye-roll here}
The dysfunction didn't just start out on this level, but has grown over time, with constant exposure to and reinforcement of such attitudes, and has now reached the point of being dangerous. Not unlike what MWD, I think, mentioned in one of her books about "bad support"...LD types getting together and celebrating their LDness..."men are pigs", etc, etc. It feeds itself. Chrom's wife hangs out on one of those websites. very bad. lots of man-bashing, and high-fiving of each other for s-starving their hubbies ("those pigs!"). a man-hater isn't necessarily a "dangerous" thing, all by herself. You might know someone with "anger management" issues...same thing. BUT, if you found out that the anger-management person was also a gun owner, you might really want to watch your step around them. KWIM?
If I were HD, I'd be separating my finances, and my sleeping arrangements, toot sweet. If an early-morning fondle = a "violation", imagine what rolling over into morning wood would be?? (as if we do that on purpose). The name "Bobbit" comes to mind...
Mojo is saying he needs to force her to be vulnerable.
Have you ever tried to make a scared wild animal succumb to affection by forcing affection on it? If MrsHD has been traumatized as I suspect, there is no way she is going to let anyone force her to do anything, including making her vulnerable. That will literally feel like a life or death situation to her. Go ask Corri how she would have reacted to such a scenario a couple of years ago. My guess is that if the “forcing” had triggered any of her past feelings of trauma, it would have resulted in a kicking, screaming fight for life. Showing strong boundaries is not the same as forcing something on another person.
However, I need to post the following, just because it is one of those things that is 100 percent totally HAIRDOGian:
It's not the Oedipus complex. That is a term coined by Freud to describe a male's attachment to his mother. This is the Electra Complex, or, as Freud preferred it, the "feminine Oedipus attitude."
This (correcting someone) is what my dear friend referred to when he said, "You're right . . . but you're still an azzhole."
I have tried to curb this behavior, but realized that, damn it...it is so genuinely me, that you can go ahead and hate the sin but love the sinner. It's a package deal. I actually told my wife this when I corrected something she said over vacation. So, I'm not all sweet and un-annoying. I'm an azzhole, at times. (as if YOU didn't know.)
Force her to be vulnerable was the wrong choice of phrase. I guess it came out as "force her to be vulnerable" because I was equating the word force with strength. Through his strength she can become vulnerable. Once she has a sense of the firmness of his boundaries she can allow herself to feel vulnerability. There is a nice safe wall around her built by the strong hands of Hairdog and she can relax, become more vulnerable, become more feminine.
I am not saying any of this will be easy, because it won't and she will need IC as well as HD's new behaviours. The compassion that HD needs to show to her is not nice guy compassion, the compassion she is crying out for is for TOUGH love.
Fran
p.s. Thanks for the correction Hairdog It just goes to show that in this male dominated fcking paternalistic society the girl version would get overlooked huh.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
(as if we do that on purpose). The name "Bobbit" comes to mind...