why don't I listen to my own stories?

[Trixi]

Yesterday, late morning, he left. Gathered up his dirty clothes, threw them in grocery sacks, packed up his personal sundries into the little travel bag. *sigh*

*ALL* of the motorcycle gear was left here. He mentioned something about it ("so, you'll put the gear away?") (it was still in the back of my car.)

I have had some more time to try to reflect on some of our conversations. In retrospect, I wish we hadn't talked about the R. I get so impatient sometimes.

First I will quote some of the positive things he said:

"I spend almost all of my free time with you" [side note- when I wanted to do marriage builders and the 15 hours/week of undivided attention, he wouldn't do it. Now he is.]
"I am really enjoying our time together"
"We were having the most fun of anyone at the concert"
"You're an "easy rider"" [cycle reference!get your mind out of the gutter!]
"I had a really good time this weekend"
"Next time, we need to plan better" {I like the "Next time" part]
"I'm dating you to get reacquianted with you/get to know you better"

Now for the poopy things:
"We're just too different"
"I know who you are deep down" [said negatively-like "you'll never change"]
"Something is missing"
"You don't go talk to lots of people at parties" {to which I said "yeah-and so what?"}
"You talk to a few people and then want to go home "early"" [I put the "early" in quotes because the times he is talking about it was 1:30am]
"I don't know what I want"

Statements that could go either way depending on my mood
"Yeah, I am getting to have my cake and eat it too."
"You're a big girl, you can make your own decisions"
"If you ask me to commit to anything right now, I can't do that. I don't know what the future holds."

My response to the cake eating comment was that I know he is getting the best of both worlds, but because we need to makeover some of the memories and get to know eachother again, I was willing to grant a brief period of time of leeway.

Probably the biggest beef he had was that we don't hang out with other couples/groups of peers. He seemed to try to pin it on me. That ticked me off, because *I* have forged bonds with several married couples (advantage of my work is that I get to know people very well, very fast, (if they are open with me)).

Unfortunately, one thing or another has happened so that we can't hang with them (Moving away, Getting divorced/splitting up.) I have not seen HIM do the same thing to try to bring couples into our sitch. Also, even if we do find a couple that we 'click' with, they had a life before we met and it is unrealistic that we are going to all of a sudden be doing everything together as a group. Plus, (and maybe I am wrong) I think that finding random adults to like, is a rare thing. If we belonged to some sort of organization with a common interest, we would have a better chance.

Keep in mind *he* mentioned how we seemed to be having the most fun at the concert and that we were the most affectionate. Then during our R talk, he brought up how there were groups of couples around us and he wished we could do something like that. You know, I "get" that--BUT, I can tell you that within the groups of couples-I didn't necessarily see any really strong bonds between the Hs and Ws themselves. For me, I would rather have a super strong bond with my H and be "alone" than have an okay bond and be in a large group.
{disclaimer-I have no real idea whether the Hs&Ws had "good" relationships; I am just using my outsider observations and I acknowledge that many people are very reserved when out in public and have excellent relationships.}

While I was feeling angry he asked why I was mad. I said because I felt like he was "boxing" me in and I HATE that. He acknowledged that he was feeling like I wanted something from him that he couldn't give at the moment, so he was a bit defensive in his reaction. In other words, when he was making it sound like it was all doom and gloom, a portion of that was just to get me to back off because he couldn't offer me anything.

Another thing that ticked me off is that he AGAIN brought up that I should have more 'girlfriends' to hang out with. *sigh*
I already have a 'best' girlfriend. I wish she didn't live so far away and have 3 young boys because then we could have an easier time getting together, but even so, we do talk. So, when he went down that path AGAIN, I listed off all the women I done stuff with in the past month, plus a couple of the guy friends. He is totally trying to stick me into the "she's an introvert and doesn't have any friends" box which is BS. HIGHLY offensive to me. As I told him, I don't have time for a hundred "friends" and would rather have a few friends that I knew and that knew me, than a whole bunch of superficial friendships.

OOO- and now that I think about it; I could have hit him below the belt. He interupts other people ALL the time (he doesn't do it with me). When we have people over, he goes and picks up his guitar and starts singing (OVER the top of people's conversations). For someone that wants to forge close relationships, he sure has a funny way of doing it. GRRRRRRRRR >:( rant over.

This coming weekend we are moving my daughter. He also plans to take friday off to "do stuff around the house." From the sounds of it, we will probably have Friday and Saturday night together.

I did ask (since we can't afford to be going to concerts and renting bikes non-stop) if it would be okay for me to invite him over for dinner on occassion. he said sure.
I mentioned that I wished we would talk more during the week and he said that he acknowledged that, but couldn't promise that it would happen.

Good God!! I am SO sorry this is so long!!!!!!!

[Dom R]

hey there

You are doing great! dont forget that. Dont get bogged down in the tricky/sticky bits!

Some comments from me:
You are getting a look "inside his mind". he's being very open in his comments. It's really, really important that you dont punish him for verbalizing his uncertainty to you.
yes, it's tough to take the uncertain/negative thoughts.
arent they to be expected, though?
YOU have negative thoughts about your marriage sometimes. What if your husband somehow got a tap into your thoughts, and could hear your negative thoughts, as well as your positive ones?
So, be patient with his. Just enjoy the MAJOR MAJOR positive ones

(and stop talking R for a week! )

"You're a big girl, you can make your own decisions"

Use that on him, the next time that he tells you that you "should get more girlfriends". ie: it's your decision, not his. ask him how it affects HIM one way or the other. In other words, the next time the situation comes up of," So, when he went down that path AGAIN, I listed off all the women I done stuff with in the past month," ask him why it is his problem to start with? Instead of defending yourself against his expectations of you, give him some "sass" and tell him that's your concern, not his.

[yet, also have your ears open, for if he actually has some kind of issue/concern of his own. ie: "if you dont ... then I dont feel like I can ..." ]



On the flip side, for "together" activities...

Plus, (and maybe I am wrong) I think that finding random adults to like, is a rare thing. If we belonged to some sort of organization with a common interest, we would have a better chance.

http://www.meetup.com can be one way to try this.
Although to SOME extent, it is more geared towards single folks than married folks. sigh. But it can still be a source of marriage-friendly activities.

I mentioned that I wished we would talk more during the week and he said that he acknowledged that, but couldn't promise that it would happen.

he might have gotten the impression you mean "serious talk". i'm guessing you just mean casual talk. you'll probably get farther if he understands that fully. Dont assume that he understands what you mean; fatal flaw that both men and women make about each other, i think!

Last comment:

My response to the cake eating comment was that I know he is getting the best of both worlds, but because we need to makeover some of the memories and get to know each other again, I was willing to grant a brief period of time of leeway.

You have been incredibly lucky, i think, in that your husband seems to have undergone a rapid and radical about-face. Do not, however, let that build up expectations in you about, "well, he should make up his mind in another week", though. I think you need to be careful to appropriately manage your "brief period of time" expectation.
I'd suggest still not pressuring him, in any way, direct or indirect. Just focus on the having fun together part, and let him decide how he feels about things.

Keep up that PMI!

[Nugget]

Agent99, I will not respond to each detail of your post. But, I will offer this insight. R talks is to avoided for exactly the reasons stated in your post. Both you and your husband are feeling vulnerable, lonely and extremely confused right now. When we initiate R talk under these circumstances they are always going to be a huge mangled mess. To many emotions are involved, to many hurtful comments are made, as we try to protect ourselves and our dignity.

Brush of you CHAPS, lift up your chin, shrug of all the negatives and move on. You guys had a great weekend and some great bonding time together. That is what needs to be focused on. Of course there are some truths to some of the hurtful comments that each of you made, but I am sure both of you wish they did not exist and if you guys continue to focus on the good and work together to make the most of the time you spend together as positive, then then bad times will loose there spotlight and soon fade away. But, R talk will make the negatives shine bright every time as long as we are feeling vulnerable, lonely and confused.

[Trixi]

Thank you both.
It's so tempting to try to "skip ahead" and figure out how it all turns out.

Regarding the brief period of time for leeway-- We both agree this can't go on indefinitely. He is getting to "know" that I am still in the background, he is getting sex, ..basically a lot of the marriage benefits, but living as a single guy during the week. I'm not so keen on that for the long term.

Having said that, I do certainly want to build up a lot more positive memories.

It hurts my feelings that he makes me feel like I am flawed for not wanting to flit around room talking to many many people. I can certainly make some adjustments to be more outgoing, and I wouldn't mind doing that--but I resent the implication that *I* can't make friends. Funnily enough, of the two of us, *I* am the one that has had the same friends for years. Wow- I am really mad about this. I knew I was offended--but I didn't know I was this pissed about it. Sheesh- last week a guy at the divorce support group who hardly talks, opened up to me and talked to me for an hour+. ARGH!

Breathe.

Okay-I think I will try to journal out my anger and just focus on having a good time with him.

[Nugget]

He pushed your button, don't let it get the best of you. It is his opinion not gospel. You know who you are.

I am sure you did or have made comments to him just to push his buttons. I certainly know I do with my wife and I always regret it in the end.

[Dom R]

Another thought for you:

you dont have to choose between EITHER rising to his bait and fighting him on something OR just keeping quiet.

You also have the choice of making a small, hopefully gentle statement along the lines of, "I'm happy with the way I am in that area", and/or "it makes me feel bad when you talk to me like that", and let it finish there.

[Trixi]

Real Estate is CRAZY. 10-14 hour days. I am SO pooped.

H called today to say that he had to work Friday night (yes, I believe him) and then was getting a sports massage saturday around 1, so he wouldn't be able to help move DD. When I called to tell DD that we needed to switch to Sunday, she got upset (understandably) so I am going to do it by myself on Saturday (with the help of some of her guy friends.)

What was interesting to me was just how disappointed I felt. I totally blew DB and was like "oh. bummer. Are you still taking Friday DAY off? Are you coming over Saturday after your massage?" He said he wasn't sure; we'd have to play it by ear; he'd probably come by on Saturday. *sigh* I wish I had been like "ok. Thanks for letting me know. Hope your back feels better soon." and not asked when he would come over. UGH!

I feel like our time together is so limited, I don't want to plan over the top of "potential" time together. My intellect knows that is terrible idea; my emotions say otherwise.

Now I reminded just how much I miss him and wish he was home; but I kinda don't want him home just yet.

I am also going thru the "even if he came home, how would I know that he was not going to walk out again later" phase. I did mention Retrovaille this past weekend..oh dear, maybe that scared him. He did say that maybe we were moving too fast. (not during the Retro convo.) How could I have forgotten that??

ARGHHHH!

[Dom R]

I did mention Retrovaille this past weekend..oh dear, maybe that scared him.

Yeah. that's for someone who is committed to working on a marriage. Or at the very least, trying out something specifically because they already think your marriage is valuable.
I think you just did the equivalent of asking someone who you've dated for a month, to go scope out china patterns with you. heh heh.

oh well, just readjust, and relax a bit.

Gah. cant believe it's almost friday. whoosh..

[Dom R]

PS: it's a funny thing. our marriage rollercoasters are now, at some level, in sync, it would seem

I had a comparatively wonderful weekend.. but now things seem to be in rather "back off a bit" mode.
oh well.... peace... tranquility... get-a-life.... Oohhmmmmmm.......

[NikB]

I feel like our time together is so limited, I don't want to plan over the top of "potential" time together. My intellect knows that is terrible idea; my emotions say otherwise.

Have I mentioned before that I think you're my twin?? In action right now, anyway!

It took me time to learn this but it is very, very unhealthy for both of you for you to plan your life around when you "might" get to see him. It sends the message that:

1. You're there for him no matter what - holding the door open, motioning for him to come inside...

2. Your plans and needs are less important than his.

3. You are so desparate to spend time with him, you'll do whatever it takes.

I am also going thru the "even if he came home, how would I know that he was not going to walk out again later" phase. I did mention Retrovaille this past weekend..oh dear, maybe that scared him. He did say that maybe we were moving too fast. (not during the Retro convo.) How could I have forgotten that??

If you want some inspiration to stay strong, read some of my recent posts. In a lot of ways the rejection the second time around hurts even more deeply than the original bomb. It's less of a shock in that with the bomb you were caught off guard. If you get "rebombed" when you've done so much to change and improve as a person, well, it's a whole different level of pain. Especially if you're not detached enough. I hope you'll trust me on this one.

And as SD says.. there are no guarantees, anyway. Your H could come back any time, leave any time, cheat on you any time - it's all out of your control, so you gotta take your life back for yourself so that you're ok no matter what.

I mentioned Retro recently too.. major mistake for someone who's "undecided."