Apology appreciated, but not necessary. I know that I have fed the beast that is the negative part of our marriage. I'm trying to figure out how to stop that, and the NG stuff seems to be at least part of the key.
I wanted to add the reason I state this is because I have been in a M where my H had poor boundaries (as well as myself) and it made me anxious and annoyed with him most of the time. Ever since our reconciliation, he has been much firmer in his boundaries and so have I. We are really at peace with one another now and fairly happy I'd say. But that would not have happened without the boundaries. They are so necessary for a functional R.
1) Fully recognize that he is dysfunctioning as a random clingy pursuer. 2) Fully recognize that MsHD is dysfunctioning as a deliberate brutal avoider.
This is dead on...and I think the only one who can change things or turn things around is HD...he will have to be brave enough to put the brakes on...not threaten D, but make it clear that he won't tolerate this cr*p anymore. And stick with it forever.
not threaten D, but make it clear that he won't tolerate this cr*p anymore
Well, from what I know of Mrs HD, it will be VERY difficult to pull that off without the threat of D, or at least S. I doubt my H would have been able to take a firm stand without taking a drastic measure. Why? Because that was just not his personality. I doubt it is HD'd either. Nice Guys have a very hard time with this whole boundary issue. And frankly the women they are M to (such as myself and Mrs HD) can be quite bitchy. Doubt we'd believe a word without some major action. S did it for us and it CAN work. I'm not advodacting that just saying it is not always the worst thing to do, in fact it can sometimes turn things around.
Two questions: 1. How would a deliberate brutal avoider handle the boob grab sitch, and the college fund sitch. 2. Where do you come up with this stuff?
Well, first I said you should move your behaviors in the direction of deliberate, brutal and avoidant, not that you should swing totally in that direction. You know that the boob grab was a totally random clingy pursuant thing to do (your monkey was engaged in some wishful thinking- BTDT). There are a lot of ways you could full-throttle reverse that behavior dysfunctionally. For instance, you could have gone totally brutal and said "Jesus Christ. I'll never do it again. I don't find your breasts all that appealing anyway." Obviously I don't think you should actually do anything like this but if you think about what MsHD's reaction might be, you get a glimmer into her dysfunction. If you think really, really hard about WHY you wouldn't want to say anything like this then you will get a glimmer into your dysfunction.
I'm probably just amusing myself with this thought but I think that there is some strength in your humor so what if you went out and purchased a set of handcuffs that had a key and when you go to bed you suggest to MsHD that if she wants to ensure that you won't touch her breasts she needs to lock the cuffs and hold on to the key, otherwise you will make no guarantees about your behavior? DELIBERATELY give her the power that she thinks she wants.
As to where I come up with this stuff. A lot of the dating books I've been reading have actually altered my perspective on marital issues because they discuss the same biological/gender/psychological/etc issues but from a different POV. Unfortunately, I think a lot of mistakes are made really early on in relationships and just get worse. I think it takes a heck of a lot of differentiation to transcend the fact that you might have chosen a partner to work out FOO problems and contrast with your temperament rather than one to complement FOO strengths and complement your temperament.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I am not accusing anyone OTHER THAN HD for inciting a lynching.
In his first post, he explained what happened. He gave his thoughts and opinions on it and what his plan was... asked for feedback on that.
And then AT THE END... he went and convoluted the whole thing by asking us for an emotional response to what happened to him. And boy howdy did he get it.
And then I said... hmmm... there seems to be a difference between what a man says he wants, and what he ultimately asks for.
If HD seriously feared a rape charge... all you have to do is consider for a few moments the scenario, and anyone can see that if Mrs. HD really took it to filing charges... SHE is the one who would... have mud in her face. It is SO preposterous that I think it can ONLY been seen as a zinger, and not for one second to be taken seriously.
It sucked and it hurt how she responded to HD. And that is what drove his last question on his first post to all of us. Understandable. But it got him and us, really far afield.
He even knows what he wants to do about it all. It includes boundaries and everything...
I'm sorry, HD... that is my opinion only. The world will give you what you ask for... so will this BB. So be careful in what you ask for.... eh?
HD is asking for the emotional response, maybe because it is a way to avoid actually DOING. If we just talk about the feelings it is safer than putting that plan of action into effect. I think MOST of the people on this BB are guilty of this as well, not just HD.
That is why I have made a concerted effort to only come to this board when I am in what I consider a healthy/functional state of mind. It is too easy to use this board for validation of feelings, etc.
not threaten D, but make it clear that he won't tolerate this cr*p anymore
Well, from what I know of Mrs HD, it will be VERY difficult to pull that off without the threat of D, or at least S. I doubt my H would have been able to take a firm stand without taking a drastic measure. Why? Because that was just not his personality. I doubt it is HD'd either. Nice Guys have a very hard time with this whole boundary issue. And frankly the women they are M to (such as myself and Mrs HD) can be quite bitchy. Doubt we'd believe a word without some major action. S did it for us and it CAN work. I'm not advodacting that just saying it is not always the worst thing to do, in fact it can sometimes turn things around.
LFL
I agree with you on this...but he has to ready to really file for D if he threatens it. Choc was ready...no more of the cr*p he had been dealing with. He was fully prepared to take it all the way...and HD I am afraid just won't do that. People have different amounts of cr*p they will endure...Choc was just, well, choc full.
My sister, as I said earlier, was Mrs. HD's twin, all the way. And yes, after her ex filed for D, she fell apart to no avail. It was over...so absolutely, worse case scenenario would be to file, but with the intention of going through with it. Because she might not back down...but definitely her loss for sure.
You're head must be spinning with all this. When Lil asked how much Ms.HD is drinking I had already begun to think back about the irrational sh!t I have had to deal with from my H. Your whole sitch just gave me this uneasy feeling about how abusive she is being towards you. I went back and read over some of my old threads from about a year ago. The ones where I started to wake up and realise just what exactly I had been putting up with for so long. Whether you term it "war" or "boundary setting" or "self-esteem" or whatever there comes a point where you will just stop letting her treat you as a punching bag. The point that happens is up to you HD. For me it started after a particularly bad row and H attempted to patch it back up with sex. I turned him down. Having posted here for a couple of years complaining about no sex in the M I turned him down. And that was the turning point for me. The point where I realised that the palliative crumbs he was throwing for me didn't cut it.
It precipitated a crisis, but I survived. You will too HD. The thing to be on the lookout for is the nice behaviour. If MsHD has done you wrong DO NOT ACCEPT the nice behaviour as recompense for the wrong doing. Stay angry.
I know, it's hard.
Mojo's analysis does seem to be spot on.
Here's a cyberhug {{{HD}}}
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Doubt we'd believe a word without some major action. S did it for us and it CAN work. I'm not advodacting that just saying it is not always the worst thing to do, in fact it can sometimes turn things around.