Another thing I have noticed [it isn't invariable, is how young many of us were when we hooked up with our MLC person.
I met my h when we were both just 20, and I note that many were around that age or younger. Says a lot about us, and our Was's I think . . . .
Of course I have had the 'I never wanted to marry you' [Never mind that I was fighting boys off with a stick at the time]. . . But I wonder if our lack of life experience [on both sides] has contributed? Just an idle thought.
Thanks for your recent posts. They've given me a lot to think about.
It's especially hard to deal with WAS's flight from commitment. I suppose they think we LBS did our own "walking," and that may be true too. I know in my case I was not the husband I should have been. I see more clearly than ever my own faults, and how my adult behavior has been shaped by unexamined forces from the past. Doesn't excuse my sins, but like you I need to know things about her and myself in order to heal.
It's so hard when they won't talk to us like adults. My WAW doesn't want any R talk, and I'm respecting that. I am distancing, working on myself, and quietly standing for the marriage. We've had a few brief phone conversations over the past three months, and I've been able to trickle out in email a few brief things I'm working on in therapy, but she's a blank wall right now. I feel like I'm one of those astronomers who is waiting for a signal from the great beyond! I'm moving on with GAL, so don't think I'm just sitting here all day waiting for the phone to ring or obsessively checking email hoping for a message from her.
Hi Bruce - it is as if they have had an empathy by-pass. I do believe that for many of our WAS it is a fight for personal survival, against all the dark forces that have welled up within them. This is very much a personal opinion,I hasten to add!
They aren't hugely interested in anything but themselves, and cannot see beyond their very personal concerns - my son's first year at university passed by h as if he were in a dream, compared with the interest that he took in his other sons' university careers. Tremendously hurtful for the kids.
I don't know whether you have seen Rollercoasterriders theory about 'Drop-ins' 'Drop-outs' and 'Droplets'? If you haven't here is a quick summary. Drop-ins are those that basicaly stay around, and in contact; Drop-outs are those they take off and move out, and droplets are the ones that come and go.
Snodderly [hope I am not misquoting here] expressed a view, I think that it is the weaker ones that stay more attached to the apron strings, and the stronger ones that go.
As for talking to us like adults - no they don't, in most cases that I see. But I don't think they know how to behave like an adult themselves. I truly believe that they are in some way re-discovering themselves.
I can't believe you are still here helping people. I don't want to hijack anyone's thread, but I'm back after several years, after I thought H's MLC was over. Can someone have two MLC's? I guess it's equally possible that he never resolved his issues. He definitely is a master at hiding his feelings and pretending to be whoever someone wants him to be. I've always had weird vibes from his family because they never, never fight or even argue (parents and 5 siblings) - that's just spooky. I think they were all taught at an early age not to ever show their true feelings.
How could he have pretended everything was good until just 20 minutes before he left? I even said to him I couldn't believe what a great actor he is. Believe me I didn't get to say much before he ran out the door after almost three years of me thinking we were doing really well.
BIL has been in MLC for over 6 years and still pretends to everyone their M is fine, even though they have barely spoken to each other in years.
I'm over in Separated forum since H walked out just Monday. I'm wondering if H is one of those guys who never comes back out - or other events keep happening to sidetrack his progress, or he just doesn't want me period.
In4ride Me 50, H 55, M 17 yrs 1st Bomb Drop 12/7/03 Separated mostly in house Come back together/H breaks back 9/04 Piecing, surgeries, recovery, H retires 2nd Bomb Drop 9/3/07 H moves out 20 min later
Hi - I am so sorry that this was re-surfaced for you. Did he ever get therapy or counselling after he came back - I mean that he actually committed to? A
Thanks so much. I thought his MLC last time was the most painful thing I would ever have to face, and it was more difficult to deal with than my own mother passing away last year. For the past couple of years I have been so thankful that it was over. It's just heartbreaking to start again.
H was not interested in counseling for the two of us since then. He does however get plenty of counseling for himself with a therapist and in AA meetings. I still don't think they ever touch on the real issues. I sometimes even think there is a big secret in his past too because he has what I think is a fear of sex also. But let's not go there yet.
I did mention on my thread something that didn't register before now - that I think he actively avoided getting into any therapy where we would both get to talk.
I will try to catch up with everyone here since it's been so long. I did learn an incredible amount last time. I guess what I need now is some feedback if the same dbing can even work a second time.
Thanks much.
In4ride Me 50, H 55, M 17 yrs 1st Bomb Drop 12/7/03 Separated mostly in house Come back together/H breaks back 9/04 Piecing, surgeries, recovery, H retires 2nd Bomb Drop 9/3/07 H moves out 20 min later
Thanks for your insights. Several points you raised hit my WAW dead on. She's spending money on herself like crazy, and seems to be focused on building herself physically. As some may know from another thread I started, she came into the house three weeks ago when I was there 15 minutes later than I said I'd be and immediately yelled "Why are you still here? You're being selfish!" TAlk about projection!!!!! She did quickly apologize. She knew I was there yet chose to come in rather than drive off. She would have had a point had I camped out for several hours daring her to come in and talk to me.
She's in therapy (has been for years) but something in her has taken a turn in a sharply different direction the past few months (even before the separation occurred--exercise, diet, clothes, car, the usual stuff; no sign of OM yet). I think it's all tied somehow to her long abiding fear of death. I'm part of that puzzle/problem given my failures/issues, but the more I read and try to piece this together, the more this MLC/change angle makes sense.
She has had serious self esteem issues from long before I met her. In one of the few phone conversations we had where some deeper stuff came up, she told me she thought I needed to go examine myself and she needed to work on self esteem for why she put up with some of my emotional neglect. Well, that's part of the picture, but I feel it's far too one-dimensional in terms of what we need to do to build a new marriage. She's made great strides in the past few months, but her framing of the issue that way really has me thinking that when she talks about my faults (and there are many) she's not acknowledging, at least not to me, the other dimensions of this crisis. It's possible she's aware of them but isn't sharing. Or does the MLC really ever know? My WAW is smart as hell, and she's in therapy, so I wonder if she's aware of some issues but behaves in certain ways regardless. Anyone have any insights if that is possible for MLC?
Thanks to everyone posting; you help me more than you know.
It sounds as if Bruce, that she may be attempting to face some of the issues. Especially since she is in therapy herself. That is a good sign. She may be testing the waters with you bringing up your issues to see if you are willing to take a little responsibility here as well.
In4Ride, I have a feeling that your h's mlc wasn't completely finished. Some of them are snatched from their crisis or shocked back to reality too soon and once again, at a later time, will go right back into crisis. They have to go through the entire crisis in order to come out the other side a whole, healed individual.
I'm sorry you are back for another trip on the coaster. It's not a fun way to spend your life riding on.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
