Just for the record, my "err of the side of aggressiveness" on this issue comes not just from the comment about the kids' college accounts. I was lumping the two incidents together -- the savings comment and her response to the now infamous Great Boob-Grabbing Caper.
It is her willingness to use such overwhelmingly disproportionate responses that I think needs to be called.
One of the things that's been enlightening for me is to now have calm conversations with the formerly-wayward Mrs. Choc. to find out what she was thinking at various stages of our war. She has made SEVERAL comments like "I hated you at the time for doing thus-and-such, but I can now see why you did it, and I respect you for it," or " . . . I can see now why you had to do that in order to get thru to me." I've got loads more thoughts on this subject on a "NMMNG" thread I intend to start soon, but my wife's infidelity aside, it's been VERY instructive to learn how she responds to boundary-setting, manly/leading behavior, and even occasional dickishness (if done for the best of motives, like "kids" or "family" -- not just for me).
She is intentionally cruel and her behaviors toward HD are abusive
I think that about sums up the whole M problem HD.
She basically threatened rape and is using the kids as a weapon. How much worse can it get? If you don't stand up to her, there is just NO WAY she can respect you. The foundation of your M is barely hanging by a thread is seems to me.
I think it's all pretty straight-forward psychologically. HD is a great Dad. He reminds me of my Dad. MsHD had a cr*ppy Dad. She married HD for his great-Dad-like-traits because she probably consciously wanted a father for a child she would have and she unconsciously wanted a father for herself. She became a lawyer who advocates on behalf of children (right?) because she wants to protect her own inner wounded child against bad Daddy. Her better nature wants to care for her stepchildren but her recently exhibited weak nature is jealous of her stepchildren because she wants HD's fatherly care for herself. When HD behaves in ways she views as childish or sexual, she is greatly angered because "Good Daddy" is a mature caregiver and non-sexually loving. I guess I don't know what to suggest except maybe that she needs a lot of IC with a really good older male therapist.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
It's the fact that she thought it was ok to lob a threat at HD's child. That is insufferable and should be stopped immediately. Surely you see the wisdom in coming down hard on that.
Mrs. Nop is right. She resents the *hell* out of his children from his first marriage...and uses not doing for them as a tool to get back at him. Big, big mistake...personally, that in itself would make me lose so much respect for her it would be hard for me to overcome it. Mostly because it has happened over and over again.
So are you people on this board, who have so much experience working with relationships, saying the only two alternatives HD has are to either shut up and let her control everything, or go to war? Do you really think that is the only way to deal with this?
It was for me. And it worked.
Shutting up about it is what she is used to and IMO, almost expects it. To shut about it and allow her to control everything will just make the whole sitch between the two worse. The longer this goes on, the more she will fight him fighting back.
Blackfoot gave me some good advice a long time ago in recommending Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War.” His point was to learn your opponent, know where to attack, how to attack and when. In the case of MrsHD, I think Mojo summed her up very well. She has lots of weaknesses but those will not be exposed by a direct attack, or threatening D. She has lots of anger and resentment, is in complete denial of her issues (has said she doesn’t want to address them) and can therefore be very dangerous. Threatening D could be a welcome escape for her.
The difference I see with Choc’s marriage is like night and day. MrsChoc’s situation was unsustainable. She could not support herself, she would lose custody of the kids and likely have to pay some amount of child support, and was with a man who was a complete loser, and she was the one craving attention. MrsHD is not in the same boat. She makes good money, will likely get custody of the daughter, and HD will have to pay her child support, and MrsHD would likely be just as happy living alone. To take on this battle will not give the same results as Choc. For HD to threaten D would be plain stupid IMO.
There is no question MrsHD is fcked up. Fcked up people make fcked up decisions based on fcked up logic. There are disconnects in their thinking all over the place. To everyone here it is so obvious but most of us are dealing with a full deck so we can see the disconnects. I do not think she equates her threat of not funding the savings account with not caring for the kids. She sees it as a way to control HD and put him one-down, end of thought process. Effects on the kids do not enter the equation. She and HD are locked in a battle to see whose needs are most important. Classic Schnarch.
Threatening D or any other type of confrontation will up the ante in her eyes and make it seem that HD’s needs are more important than hers, so much so that HE is the one willing to risk the marriage by trying to trump her needs with his. She has said as much but no one seems to listen. WTF? Is this the best you people have grown to in your knowledge of relationships?
This is not an easy case. There is only ONE way out of this and it is for HD to do everything he can to address and understand MrsHD’s needs. SHE does not even know what her needs are, so her actions and words seem so contradictory and confused. It will be a monumental effort for her to explain to HD what she really wants, in a way that is consistent with her values (which she needs to define), her boundaries and HD’s boundaries. There is no point in trying to build a relationship when this foundation is not in place.
MrsHD does not resent HD’s kids, at least not directly. What she resent is that SHE does not get the attention she wants. She feels abandoned and lashes out at everything and everyone. She hates her situation but that does not mean she hates everyone else or doesn’t care for them. It is a disconnect, which is why she is fcked up.
I think ALL OF THIS is a BB version of a crowd mentality. It's a little scary... I'm wondering if we all lived where HD does, and we were sitting together in a meeting room having this exact same conversation, would the emotions running rampant here send us all out the door, after Mrs. HD with axes and pitch forks?
I don't think Mrs. HD threatened HD's children either, and I think, in the past, she's done quite a bit to help HD with them. The woman is contributing to the college education.
Do I think her saying that out loud to HD was appropriate? He!! no. But that IS rather my point.
Calm down people, no one is getting lynched today, as far as I can tell.
I was thinking the very same thing, that of a crowd mentality. I tend to spot them more easily because the very same dynamics occur in the financial markets – the irrational exuberance thing. Euphoria breeds more euphoria and despair breeds more despair. With someone who is severely unbalanced like MrsHD, her emotional swings can be so powerful they drag you into them even when you know you are being dragged. I’ve experienced the same thing with my wife in the past. Looking back I thought, how in the h*ll did that happen and why did I let myself get dragged into it? Emotions can be very powerful things, until you decide they aren’t (yeah, I know, easier said than done).
No one is lynching Mrs HD. What is wrong with saying that behavior is unacceptable? I can't speak for any of you, but the bar is set way higher in my own R in terms of acceptability. If I was M to HD and he did not address those issues I would be quite frankly disgusted. If you let someone walk over you, they often will, especially if they are F-ed up. It is not HD job to fix MrsHD, he can only respond to what she does and his lack of response in the past is a little mind-numbing to me. But that is ME. I'm just giving my take on the situation and considering most people are in agreement maybe it is an accurate assessment. Just being contrary doesn't mean anything in this case.
Lil, during the brief vacation, she and I split a six pack over the course of four days, so very little drinking. On the night we returned, (as I had noted, I imbibed too much) she drank about 3 glasses of wine, or about 1/3 bottle. Yeah. Seems like a lot to me. The thing is, she had really curtailed her drinking when she started this diet, but lately, her 'usual' is about 2 glasses of wine.
And, for what it's worth (it may make no difference, it may make a lot), what she said about the college fund was specifically, that she was done putting any more of "her" money into their college funds. (I know, I didn't specify the "her" in my original post). So, how does she calculate this as "her" money? She puts a certain amount in (which varies) each month, and it is keyed to however much extra she makes (due to her variable billable hours) over and above her basic threshold.
My pay is static. Hers is variable. Still, to me this is just a bit of budgetary logic. College funds need to be a part of the budget. I'm prepared to confront her on this; to tell her that I intend to have a set amount of $$ come directly out of my salary into the college fund. If she wants to talk at that point about how she didn't mean it (unlikely), or whatever, I'll figure out where to go from there.
Unlike an intact family situation, I have more than just a moral obligation to pay for my older kids' college education. The divorce decree ordered me to pay it (and State law supports that). So...was it an attack on my kids? Well, kind of. Was it an attack on me? Yes. She was saying, in effect, "you NEED me to pay for your kids' college, and I'm not gonna!" This is where I say it is "budgetary logic." It's a way of her showing that she's in control of this line item. Of course, unless she intends to divorce me, her attack on me also ends up attacking her -- we, as a couple, are legally obligated to pay for college. I suppose we could totally separate our finances and stay married, but either way, $X are coming out of the budget and it's definitely better for both of us if they come out now and have a chance to grow, rather than to have to take out loans and pay interest on that.
Very little communication last night. I did end up sleeping in our bed - showing up after she did. I just figured, damned if I'm going to let her spook me out of our bed, if that is what she's trying to do. And heck, if she does file some charge against me (unlikely), I can handle that.
