Puddle- I've been meaning to ask you if you think your H is in a MLC? I keep going back and forth on that with my sitch, since my H has some signs of it, but doesn't seem to be a classic case. If it's a MLC, I think much of the process deals with waiting it out, waiting for them to wake up and see what idiots they've been. Just curious about your thoughts on dealing with MLC...
Heim, I like to think he's confused, though he swears up and down that's the one thing he's not---sad, yes; confused, not at all, no doubts.
Hey Nomo! So nice to see you stopping by. Yeah, I know I have to face that fear and speak the truth to H, as Heim says. H is such a precise arguer, so attuned to nuance and semantics, that I often end up feeling like an emotional idiot.
Even though it makes complete sense to me to say:
"I think we can have a happy M, but I understand that's not what you want. I know you're interested in pursuing other Rs, and I've asked you out of consideration for me, because it hurts me, to do that outside our house. I understand that will be difficult, since this is your house, too"
I can imagine him saying:
"You say you're willing to live together and release me from my M obligation, yet you place conditions on me that make it impossible for me to build the life I want. How is that fair?"
Then in my head I say, "It's not fair, you selfish f***, but neither is it fair for you to ask your wife to accept bringing girlfriends into our home..." and it just deteriorates from there.
Gotta work on that last part. : )
NA, I don't know whether or not H is in a MLC. He says he's not, but he at this point he might also say aliens are probing him. I see some things that make me think so: he's been generally unhappy with his life lately (wanted to move to a farm, wanted to quit his job and buy a business, is approaching 40), but to be honest, I don't really care. First off, I can't know, and secondly, I don't think I'd be doing anything differently if I knew for certain he were.
Here's my latest development: I just got an email from OW (who's not OW in the PA sense, but the woman my H has a crush on, my former friend) saying sorry it's taken so long to write, she's been so sad, didn't know what to say, write anything I feel like if I want, no pressure to respond, wishing me peace "during this time."
Holy moly. I have no idea whether I'll respond, but if I do, I think I might just write something like, "Thanks for writing. I'm doing fine." Keep in mind I take what she says at face value, and I have no idea how much of a confidant she is to H at this point.
Could someone please tell me what the DB playbook says about this? I missed it.
Second new development: H just told me that he's decided news of our (emotional) separation is "not ready for prime time," so he's decided not to tell his parents when they visit next month and he's put his ring back on to avoid answering questions, since there's nothing definite enough to share.
He said he's been living in his head with this for a while, but it's still fairly new to me. "We're not there yet."
I don't take this as any kind of sign, except that perhaps he's coming back down to earth in terms of what this might look like from my perspective. Positive, possibly?
I asked if he was still interested in counseling, and he said depends. Sure, someone to help facilitate hard discussions would be good, but if it were a pro-marriage person trying to convince him he's wrong, that "might meet with some resistance." Wants our goals to be clear. Unfortunately, they're diametrically opposed.
I think I'm going to go ahead and interview counselors, since I'm having such a hard time figuring out how to say what I want to say to him and I think I'd feel safer with a witness. : )
And he also said he'd come to the "not ready for prime time" conclusion after looking around online. Said, "There are a lot of boards out there, don't know if you've looked at any of them..."
It's the 4th one on the page I linked you to (I don't know if your pages are set up the same as mine though)- Gibeon. I haven't read through her whole story, but she starts out with an H that's still living at home and wants her permission to date other women.
Sure, someone to help facilitate hard discussions would be good
Pro-marriage or not, I've a feeling any decent T/C is going to have a few thoughts on your H feelings/actions.
Now, if his "hard discussions" relates to ending the M, that's one thing. But, if I'm reading you right, "hard discussions" in the context of counselling infers a deep look at yourself. I'm thinking he's gonna get that.
You're right on the no expectations thing, but this is a tiny positive sign.
One question. Regarding not telling his parents, is he a mama's boy? I ask because is he just afraid of disappointing them. If not, I'd take that as an additional sign of positive/doubt.
No clue on how to react to the OW/ex friend's email. Probably best to just ignore it. Sigh, I guess you'll just have to be less "sophisticated" about all this new age living than they are. Party pooper.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
Hey everyone! Running off to the park for a picnic with the kids, but a quick note here.
Hey Heim! Thanks for writing.
Originally Posted By: Heimlich
Now, if his "hard discussions" relates to ending the M, that's one thing. But, if I'm reading you right, "hard discussions" in the context of counselling infers a deep look at yourself. I'm thinking he's gonna get that.
He's in therapy and doesn't feel like he needs to take any more hard looks at himself re the M that I know of. I think hard discussions have to do with me expressing my feelings, how we work moving forward re partnership and the kids, the house, etc.
Originally Posted By: Heimlich
Regarding not telling his parents, is he a mama's boy? I ask because is he just afraid of disappointing them. If not, I'd take that as an additional sign of positive/doubt.
He's not a mama's boy. His mother suffers from such extreme depression that she's paranoid and in the care of the state. He has no contact with her. The parents I'm referring to are his beloved father and his stepmother (of about 12 years). He's come to the point where he feels he's his own adult and doesn't need to be concerned what they (or anyone else) think about his choices. He said they'd notice his ring being gone, and stepmom is *extremely* outspoken and would certainly have a few things to say.
Originally Posted By: Heimlich
No clue on how to react to the OW/ex friend's email. Probably best to just ignore it. Sigh, I guess you'll just have to be less "sophisticated" about all this new age living than they are. Party pooper.
Yeah, I really am. Who knew I was so traditional, such a prude? I'd really like to be the bigger person here, though, which is why I was considering responding. Seems like not responding might make it look like I'm wallowing. Maybe I should take a page from H and not worry about what anyone else thinks!
Okay, two things. First, I realized why I'm hung up on the conversation I'm expecting to have with H re him wanting to be able to date women IN the house.
I've been struggling with how to word my position, and anticipating his response.
So what I figured out is that I think to draw a clear boundary, I have to say "I want this, and if you can't agree *I* will do this..." I've been going around and around with "I want this, and if you can't agree, *you'll* have to...." which is why I kept thinking he'd experience that as me kicking him out instead of him choosing to leave.
So how do I finish the "I will ______" part? I'll move out? I don't want to do that. I'll ask you to leave? I'd like him to say that.
I guess if I say I can't live in the house with him dating other women (here, not just anywhere), I have to be ready to leave if he refuses to keep them away. Or am I missing something?
Again, H isn't dating anyone. We're just setting up ground rules for living together.
Secondly, I'm considering responding to OW's email. I'm thinking something along these lines: "Thanks for writing; that can't have been easy. I'm doing well. H will choose his own path. Sorry we couldn't be friends."
