It looks like W and I are going to have a 'serious talk' in two weeks, and I thought it would be good to get your thoughts on this and prepare. Any ideas you have would be wonderful.
So here we go:
Background: WAW, 45, no sex or physical contact and little affection for 3+ years, she has affair with OM starting 1-1/2 years ago. We have 2 kids, 9 and 13, married 22 years, both American but live in Sweden. Wife is an ENFP designer with a passionate temperament, me a nearly 50 INTP engineer and a conflict avoider. Her main complaint is that I am 'not strong enough and don't fight back'. I've tried the LRT for a long time, nearly always been kind and helpful, but no change. At our last talk maybe 6 mos ago, W refused to see counselor, saying it won’t help.
So I propose, as suggested above, to have a final 'I can’t take it anymore and now you have to decide' type discussion. I can go either way with her, staying or leaving, having emotionally detached enough. Here is how I think it could happen:
Location: in public, at a restaurant, other customers not known to us. Reason for public place is to keep discussion under emotional control (what do I say if she wants to discuss at home?).
Time: lunch, midweek, so kids are not home, with enough time allotted.
Basic conditions (my demands):
(Possible preface - before we start discussing, I want to say that I still love you, and to say I am going to present two alternatives, of which I prefer the first?)
Either wife
1. says she will work on our marriage and how, and 2. says she will give up her affair, and 3. will submit to an AIDS test before we possibly sleep together again.
OR
1. I file for divorce, effective in 6 to 12 months (Sweden has no-fault divorce), and 2. I possibly cut off money flowing to W, so then she pays half the house costs for the next six to twelve months. Alimony does not exist in Sweden. Kids are shared a priori 50/50. Divorce is simple, costs less than $100 total.
In either case, the kids shall be spared as much pain as possible. This year’s grades determine which high school our son can enter, so he must have a stable background. Our daughter, still a tender 9, deserves an unsullied youth as long as possible (she doesn’t want to go on vacations with just my son and I anymore, will only go 'if mama comes too'). Protecting the kids is not negotiatible in my book (she let them watch Marie Antoinette and breakfast at Tiffany’s, by the way, both of which deal with infidelity – do you think it is a good idea to break the news to the kids this way?)
Let us suppose she does not agree to the three demands. I then would immediately file for D, starting a string of events. We work against the Swedish background that splits everything 50-50, including the kids’ time after D, but that our incomes are separate from the day D is filed for. The possible scenarios are then
1. we sell the house (each person has a half), and separate. End of story. 2. she does not want to sell, but I do. She then pays me half the house value, if the OM does not move in. She cannot afford, I believe, half the house, however, so will be forced to sell (I also cannot imagine selling only half a house to anyone). 3. neither wants to sell the (wonderful, on a lake, lots of time and care put in) house. I move out, put in internet based surveillance cameras to ensure OM never enters, W remains. Positive in that my investment continues. Negative in that she would have to pay half the mortage, heating, utilities, etc, and so this probably can’t happen. I could loan her the money, with interest. Negative in that she is not out of my life. 4. she wants to sell, but I do not. I may just possibly be able to afford doing this if I get a new job. Positive in that I have a nice house and that I can kick her out of it and the garden. Negative financial aspects with big loans. 5. we rent out the house, both moving out. Positive in the investment sense.
Her desired scenario will likely be to say 'let us keep the house, you get a lover too, we hide everything from everyone, keep our social circles, and then we are both happy'. My answer would then be 'what a lie we would then be living, honey. The best thing for me, and the best example for the kids, is a house with two clearly in-love adults, who spend time and vacations together and don’t sneak out under false pretenses to have affairs. I won't accept this'. Do you have more arguments to rebut her? Do you think she will come up with other fantasy type scenarios? I'd like to be prepared.
Other arguments for splitting instead of some artificial arrangement are
O W is often unpleasant, moody, critical, uncommunicative, often irritated – who wants to be with such a person? O simplicity in finances – I can otherwise foresee disagreements on what or what not to spend money on O fresh, clean, starts for each of us O peace, finally, for me (I turn 50 this December and would like to have at least clarity on what is going to happen) O health reasons - going through this is stressful
My wife will be concerned about – keeping the house, having her new lover (who text messages lots during the day, her phone is on silent ring), protecting the kids, not losing face in our social circles, keeping those social circles, money (she makes only a little as a designer), not shocking her own and my relatives.
I will be concerned about – losing the house (I am saddened, but prepared to do this), and protecting the kids. Also, I am considering moving back to the States and changing jobs, which at nearly 50 is a big thing. Social stuff is not so important to me. I prefer to be open with people, including relatives.
One odd twist is that my job has me staying with my mother in law in California, this for weeks at a time, which is very kind and nice of MIL. It probably isn’t appropriate to continue this arrangement should we divorce, though I think I am closer to my mother in law than her own daughter sometimes (W didn’t want to come to a mini-family reunion this 4th of July, so I took the kids; during which W drove to somewhere, a fact she is hiding, presumably to meet lover while we were abroad).
Two smaller points – I turn 50 this December, and would like just a small, loving, party with my kids (and ideally shocked back to her senses W too). What do I say about this? Do I uninvite W after having filed, or let her be present, this to spare the kids?
We normally have a large (50-70) people Christmas party. Beyond entertaining our friends and acquaintances, this is a social thing. I am prepared to leave our friends completely. If I file for D, what do we do about it?
Minimize her contact with OM – for the kids’ sake and for my jealousy, I will not aid and abet her in visiting OM. This means we won’t take her to the airport (OM lives in Germany), which getting to is then a considerable pain for her. What do we tell the kids if she goes to see him? That she is on a work trip?
The other large question is how to turn off the money spigot – when and what shall be no longer paid for by me? I don’t want a continuation of our relationship based on blackmail, but I do not feel it is appropriate to pay her anything more given how I have been treated and for so long. What would you do? Shall I turn off the money immediately, completely, or just on some things? When?
Also, shall I file for D before this discussion or give her a chance? Between now and the discussion is another payday, of which she would then get 50% if I file after. It sounds cheap, I know, but that is basically how much we would owe on the mortage each at the end of October and it seems a matter of principle that she should pay her half herself.
The big problem between us has always seemed that I don't fight her - perhaps there is training in this? Maybe I could mention this as a possible solution to our problems.
Grateful for any thoughts -
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
