WAW1978's adventures in DB'ing -3

[Nomopo]

Good post H! To the extent I came across as defending some of H's behavior or justifying any kind of neglect/absue, that was not at all what I was trying to say do. I think some of the best value WAS can give us on the boards is insight into what our spouses may be thinking, and I am was ayt times in my post trying to give WAW1978 (and maybe flipside) some insight into what her H may be thinking or why he may be doing some of the things he is feeling.

However, go back and reread WAW's post from 8/30 (I think it's on page 9). She's dealing with a borderline (or outright) emotionally abusive spouse.

I read it previously. Again, I am not trying to dismiss his issues. They are HUGE. And ultimately, only he can address them if he becomes much more self aware and wakes up, and then wants to change. Sorry if I seemed dismissive of what WAW1978 is dealing - I believe it has been VERY VERY HARD for her. Here's hoping for better times soon!

Yes, technically, she's a WAW.

Why do you say technically. Is WAW1978 any different than any of our WASs in that she has been hurt for a long period of time, and thinks that she may have to walk away from her M? I believe she is a WAW. She chose that for her screen name too. Whether she is justified or not (and I think she is, because her H would never wake up otherwise --- just like I think my W was justified in her considering walking away, though I have now seen the light ) is irrelevant to whether she is the WAS.

However, read another way, she had to leave to remain her own person.

Agreed.

Maybe I sympathize with WAW too much

I don't think so, but (oddly) maybe you have not been thinking about it from her H's perspective enough. Weird to say that to an LBS, huh? I think the past few weeks I have been guilty of this too. Because I think we all like and respect WAW1978, and are pulling for her. And we know what she is thinking, feeling and going through. But do we really believe her H is evil incarnate? I doubt it, and I doubt WAW1978 thinks that. He is very confused and has big issues, and he needs to take a hard look at himself and this sitch in a bad way. So, in other words, he hasn't woken up yet. Hey, that's unfortunate. But many of us took a long time to wake up, myself included (at least 15 months!!!!). So, I am here to tell you it can happen. Not that it will, but it can!!!

Plus, SHE is the one trying to save the M and do all of the work -- JUST LIKE A LBS!

Look, her H doesn't even know what he doesn't know. It's sad. But it can change. And I suspect stronbgly that if you could sit down and talk to him he would honestly tell you that much (if not most) of what he has done has been to try to save the M. As crazy as that may sound, I would not be surprised if he believes that. He just doesn't have a clue. That's frsutrating and hard to deal with, but it's not like he is getting some perverse pleasure out of this process. I suspect he is suffering too. I suspect his world has been rocked, and I doubt seriously that he has come to peace with it and is ready to move on.

Plus, her H's controlling behavior hasn't changed -- putting their money into a safe and returning it but with a portion taken out to cover her half of a trip, keeping a dog he doesn't really like, controlling access to their D, etc.

Yeah, he has control issues. He needs to work on them. We all have or had issues we need to work on. This is a biggie, no doubt. (BTW, I don't really follow the whole money thing. Maybe someone can explain the whole "their money" and "her half of the trip" thing to me. I didn't follow that.)

Nomo/GD/CVA, honestly, were any of you EVER this controlling?

I can be controlling (especially at work - and maybe on these DB boards ), but I would tell you that in our M/R I feel like I am about the least controlling person in the world. Not sure if W would agree with that, but I was completely trusting and supported my W in anything and everything she wanted to do. There may not be a bigger male feminist than me in the whole world. (Not sure if W would agree with that, but I think she would.)

I know that people can and do have changes of heart, but I have a hard time envisioning either of you displaying the utter contempt for your spouse that WAWs H has shown towards her.

Again, I sure am sorry if I seemed to be justifying anything her H did to make her feel like this.

Nomo,

Maybe he is detaching, and maybe in part he is finally giving you the time and space you need to figure some things out. And maybe he is trying to figure some things out for himself.

Another interpretation is that he's still trying to control her.

Yep, could be. In fact, I do think he is still trying to control her. At a minimum, like all of us, he is hoping his conduct leads to certain results in her conduct/thinking/feelings. In a sense, his misguided efforts to control her (shame her, guilt her, brow beat her) to stay in the R are like our more mature, insightful efforts to influence our WASs.

He knows she wants to work on the M

Remind me how he knows this. Is it because of the MC sessions or did WAW1978 tellhim that? I honestly don't remember, sorry. How recently has he heard this?

My guess is even if he has heard this, he still has doubts because he also heard the bomb. There are other signs from WAW1978 that she may not want to be married, that her feelings for him have changed, that she doesn't love him, that she isn't attracted to him (whatever, cause I can't remember the details) for him to not feel so secure that she wants to work on or save the M. Heck, the S alone (and I think she had to implement a S) is enough for him to tell himself that she is giving up on him, wants to divorce him, wants to break up his family, etc., etc., etc. These are hard and scary things for him to deal with too. Don't we have to acknowledge this? Haven't we all (as LBSs) felt this? Doesn't it help WAW1978 (and other WASs) to see where their spouses might be operating from. He is operating, at least in part, from fear, anger, hurt. I feel those things vis-a-vis my W too.

, but is attempting to control access to the things she loves -- D, dog, him -- in an attempt to get her to return without having to look at himself and changing HIS behavior.

Let's think of it this way - IMAGO dialogue. Even if we strongly disagree with what he is doing (and I think we all do - eg, restricting access to her D is just so far off), can't we see what emotions are prompting this action? And can't we validate (understand logically) why he feels those emotions, and even empathize (understand emotionally) with him? I know I can. Easily.

From what WAW has said, he's still refusing to move from his comfort zone.

Yep, again, he has lots to work on. We all agree. But are his emotions that he must be feeling through this difficult time for all involved so hard for the rest of us to understand? They shouldn't be. Maybe we lost sight of that some.

WAW, don't give up yet, because, deep down, I really don't think you want to. As I posted earlier, build and show your H some inner strength. If it's too much for him, you're better off. But, as Nomo correctly pointed out, he may surprise the hell out of you -- in a good way. Maybe you moving out, living life on your terms, and becoming stronger will be the 2x4 he needs to knock some sense into him. If not, well, his loss.

I agree with all of this.

WAW1978, I sure hope you find this helpful, and not as an attack on you, because that is not what I mean to convey. I sincerely sympathize with your plight. I know you are having a diffuclt time, and you hurt a lot. I am so sorry for that. But just like my W is likely struggling with what is happening as much as I am, your H is probably hurting and struggling too. Even if he can't see things clearly, you can, and no matter what happens you will be well served to see all of these things as clearly as possible. At least I think so.

Again, I wish the very best for you, your H, your D and your dog (in short, your entire family). I hope some of this helps you.

Nomo