All hope is lost/help

[Evie]

H dropped bombshell in May, ILYBNIL with you confession. H has slept on sofa; we have been on holiday, H moved back into the bed, we have made love a few times. I read DB and applied 180 behaviour. i have given him space, not pressured him to talk, massaged his ego, done all the giving, and him all the taking, i was learning to be patient as teh book says. H typical caveman but much worse. 2 boys aged 3 & 7. H dropped bombshell 2 weeks ago that his feelings are unchanged and is looking for a place to live and cannot give me a reason for not loving me, he just wants it to end amicably and be best mates! Any advice

[liz7]

disappointed;

Sorry hon to see you here.....we all know the pain you are feeling...and it does so suck!!!

You have found a great place in coming here...lots of love and support...I would never be where I am today with out the help of my friends here on the board!!!

Many told me a year ago when I first came on...that my M didnt get where it was over night...and that it will take time for it to repair...and sweetie...we are the ones to do the work for now...but start on YOU for YOU!!! No garentees here..but we can be a better person for ourselves and those we love...

My H just told me that him and I both left the M emotionally, he was the one to first get the strenght to leave. ( I was distant, and totally dependant on him)....and not to mention controling.
We are togher again (living together again sense Jan...6 months after the bomb)...

I am a living tesimony that there can be a second chance..but I had to work my @ss off...doing all the work of dbing...and then some...

Hang in there hon....get your pma, gal...and come here...remember you are not alone...we all know the pain you are having....

love & hugs
liz7

[cat03]

your H might need time to process his anger. Listen, the more you cling to him the more he'll be convinced he has to go. Accept, and tell him that you understand he needs space, that YOU also need space to think... and see what happens.

In "tough Love" by JB Dobson they had a figure of 2 hands, one hand is holding desperatly onto the other and the 2nd hand is trying to get away, next, the first hand moves away for a bit and the first hand realizes he's free and that maybe that's not what he really wanted.

Doing all the giving will just exaust you. Yes, you should change and do 180s if you accept that you've done wrong. But also remember you are making these changes for YOURself and not only to please him.

[Evie]

Thanks for replying Liz & Cat, its reassuring to know that i have support out there from people who understand. You both sound so positive. I dont feel positive or hopeful. H is adament that his feelings will not change as he has felt this way for so long. In fact when I look back I wonder if we should ever have got married? T13, M8, 2d 19 & 16 from previous M. 2s 7 & 3 from this M.

Cat - I could accept i'm to blame, if i knew what the issues were, although H says there are no issues, so how can you work through things if he wont talk about problems? I believe there are issues but he has given up and is not prepared to try, he is unable to communicate and has always internalised things. Once he makes his mind up there's no changing it, he says there is no ow and just wants to be on his own. He's 41, i'm 43.

My question is: how do I continue to DB and work on myself at the same time, whilst knowing he will be moving out? As you say i'm exhausted.

Thankyou for answering, i feel much support.

[theoden]

dissapointed,

I would bet he's having an affair.

He just leaves?

No reasons?

It's an affair. Oh yes...and they lie about it.

Continue to get a life and have fun for yourself. Don;t just do it to get him back. If you are happy and moving on with your life, it will confuse him.

If you want to, hire a Private Investigator. Get evidence of the affair. It will set your mind at ease (if there is no OW), or at least, let you know what you are up against.

It's OK to let him know you know.

But then, nothing else changes -- you start living a fun life.

---Theoden

[cat03]

It does not have to be an affair, it could be a MLC or he might not have the spine to explain himself fully so he "wont' hurt her" (just BTDT)
My H was also 100% sure our M was a lie and never loved me and that there was no turning back. I call it the anger stage, nothing you say will change his mind for the time being. I know you feel powerless but understand that he needs to go through the process of letting his anger run its course.

Have you suggested MC? are you seing a C yourself? I highly recommend it, you both need it, if he won't go with you go alone.

DB by not pursuing him, by giving him space, by being agreable and be the "greener grass". Work on yourself by doing stuff you maybe stop doing long ago because of the kids. Before my H left I had sort of let myself go, wore unappealing clothes, no make up, didn't work out. Our self steem suffers when we go through this kind of things, do whatever you think would lift your spirits, work out, find time to do something just for you, coffee with old friends, find that independent person you used to be before marriage and kids. Pleanty of times we forget we are women and act like "mommies" all the time.

GAL

[Evie]

Thanks for the replies and support, very much needed at the moment.

I did and sometimes still feel it was an A or an EA, something seems to have triggered around Easter. I considered a PI but they are sooo expensive.

We did go for an initial C session together, but he now refuses to go as he didn't like it! I have considered going on my own, but I dont want to work at ending the relationship. I have good friends who I can talk to, or do you still recommend a C?

Cat - in answer to your advice, I have tried to be the greener grass - (it seems to have made no difference)i do go to the gym, look after my appearance and go out with friends. I work full time and we also run a small business together. I am happy to take up a new hobby (mountain biking)with him to enable us to spend time as a family, he said yes, but not with much enthusiasm. Also i'm the one who has iniated all evenings out together, and we've chatted away like mates.

I've tried the 180 and put on a brave face, carrying on like i'm so happy when i'm not and on this emotional roller coaster looking for the slightest improvement - talk about patience!!

He said i was burying my head in the sand...I said I was giving him space as I knew he didnt like to talk. From your observations do you think my actions bothered him at all? (it proved that the atmosphere was lighter in the house for a few weeks, and I felt better).

Recently found he had been saving money, when i asked what it was for, he said he would be silly not to save money as he feels financially vulnerable.

The suggestion about 'anger' is a good one, i'd never thought that before, but yes he does seem angry, I don't know what about though?

MLC? - Could be, seems bored with our life and me, I cant see what he hopes to achieve by been on his own?

He has issues about D's from previous M as ex H is not a good provider (we couldn't have seen at the time how bad this situ would turn out) (I left XH for present H). But now we have kids of our own, he seems to resent D's?

Issue about 1st S's surname on birth certificate, he said I refused to have his surname and that i insisted on my name (previous M name). I wanted a double barrelled name, i would never do that to anybody. I was just looking for commitment off him and said to him he would have to marry me if he wanted just one surname on C. We did get married (if he doesnt want to do something, he wouldn't)- I thought that was the end of the issue, it's only now it's resurfacing.

What does 'BTDT' & 'PMA' mean?

Cat - what do you mean by 'knocked down again but not staying down'? What improvements have you made?

Looking for any advice and clarity.

[JAK58]

[/quote]What does 'BTDT' & 'PMA' mean?[quote]

Disapointed,

BTDT means been there done that.
PMA means positive mental attitude.

It does sound like your H may be in MLC.

The best thing you can do is be pleasant, It sounds like you are trying to get him to do things with you. My advise is don't wait till he asks you. This way you do not seem pleading.

You need to act as if( you go do things and show him you do not need him in your life to be happy).

If he tries to argue just walk away. If he tells you about his issues just validate the things that are justified and leave the rest(like im'e sorry you feel that way). Do not let him rope you into an arguement.

The best thing you can do is work on you. You can't change H, only he can change the way he is thinking right now.

In MLC they will come up with all sorts of issues a lot of times. Things that were never mentioned or didn't seem to be a problem before.

Welcome to the Roller Coaster ride. No one likes it but, we are here, and we are here for each other. You will get great feedback here.

JAK

[cat03]

Cat - what do you mean by 'knocked down again but not staying down'? What improvements have you made?

Well, I thought I was in the clear. My H left our home for 8mths (05-06) had A while separated (which I didn't findout til much later when he came back) and recently found out he renew his A with op (3wks ago, he broke it off, now we are dealing with the aftermath)
I have become a stronger person, this second A was, of course, hard on me, but I had been there and had the tools to pick myself up and not despair like before.

MLC? - Could be, seems bored with our life and me, I cant see what he hopes to achieve by been on his own?

Quite honestly, that's what MLC, a confused state, senseless decisions are made because they are looking at their life and dont' like what they see, they are staring at the "greener grass" right now, he' s asking himself "what if I would've done xyz? why didnt' I do such and such?"

I have considered going on my own, but I dont want to work at ending the relationship.

The C is supposed to help you be strong and deal with your anguish while working on the R, C is not there to end it. A professional has seen it all, I also have great friends (one who's been on my very same shoes) and she was very helpful, but I'm telling you, being in this limbo takes a toll on one's sanity, a C should be there to guide you week by week. You must feel confortable with your C and see that you make progress, if not, get a new one, I went through 2 before I found a wonderful pastoral councelor who, from day one, was so helpful I'd leave with a weight lifted from my chest each time.

I've tried the 180 and put on a brave face, carrying on like i'm so happy when i'm not and on this emotional roller coaster looking for the slightest improvement ...He said i was burying my head in the sand...

Yup, that's text book MLC/WAS, they believe your effords to be fake, momentary or too little to late. That's why I want to emphasize that your changes be first of all for YOU, to know that no matter what happens, you can make it on your own and that you can be happy with or without him (a hard but necesary conclusion one must reach to truly detach)
I've said this so much, so simple, but, be yourself, dont' look like you are "trying too hard", do all those things you do for you, if he doesn't want to go biking, go on your own, and DO have a good time and enjoy yourself.

Recently found he had been saving money,
===========================
Yea, he could be planning to buy a MLC toy or a way to buy himself some happiness

he does seem angry,I don't know what about though?
===================
Anything and everything hon, I was no perfect wife, but when my H was in MLC heck he thought everything was my fault, that he was never happy and that he was in such misery solely because of me. This is how ridiculous it gets: when my H moved out he got an appt even further away from his work than our home (and we live far away) He'd complain to me when I told him he'd had to come watch the kids and when I said "why did you move so far then?" he said "it was your fault, you made me move this far" ... see? absolutely NO sense.

Asides from our dear DB book I want you to read Tough Love by JB dobson, it will help you lots.

[Evie]

I'm in a good place these last few days thanks to all your help advice & support.

Cat - has your H's MLC been going on for 2 yrs? - at what point to we say enough is enough? I admire you for standing by him through MLC & A's. Have you lost respect for him? You must love him so much to put up with it, have you ever considered leaving yourself? I bet you feel you could a book?

How long do people suffer with MLC & does this mean that he may still love me? Are there any success stories out there?

If he is still in the house, is this a positive? I feel we are detached in every way.

Jak - thanks for the advice on how to handle the every day, I was struggling with this. I'm afraid I get angry if we've had a 'chat' and can't speak to him for days and don't want to do his laundry or cook for him, then I cool down and my behaviour seems so petty (probably pushes him further away). I will wait till he suggests an evening out, I dont think he will, as he never did before, but at least I won't be pleading..

I will also do the cycling with the boys, never thought about doing it on my own, I'll need to buy a 'tandem' attachment for the 3 year old.

I feel as if I have tunnel vision and cannot rationalise things that well, every thing to me is in black and white.

If I apply DB, won't he just think i'm burying my head in the sand again?

I don't feel I want to talk anymore because he offers no clarity and says there are no issues. In fact the comment about him been angry has really set me thinking and I have come to the conclusion he is angry about a lot of things, my sons surname on birth certificate, getting married, responsibilities, but especially my daughters from previous M. - they are typical teenagers, the grudge is that he feels walked all over, taken for granted & a mug because their paternal father has not provided that well, so the responsibility has been upto him, he knows we came as a package, but he still feels as if he has been taken for a mug, while my XH enjoys what he must see as a better life.

Thank you for listening. x