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Blackfoot (and Martelo)

That Mystery comment was just a joke. I'm sorry if I offended you blackfoot. Wasn't my intention. Perhaps my poor sense of humor is part of what gets me in trouble with my W.

I said: Boundary: I will not live in a sexless/affectionless marriage.

Blackfoot replied:
But you did.
So why are you saying that? Untill your ready to back it up, it looks like posturing.

That is the core of my problem eh? One thing that is clear to me is that I don't know how to enforce boundaries, which of course makes them not really boundaries if they're not enforced, which means I don't really have boundaries, which ... this is the point where my head starts to spin.

I said: So what is the W's role in this ongoing wooing game? Keeping herself good looking and being fun to be around and interested in the man? Strutting her stuff on occasion to catch the man's eye? Or is the man supposed to just keep wooing no matter what, or the woman finds someone else?

blackfoot replied why are you asking hap about what you want to receive. Thats for you to decide.

I really don't understand what you mean here. Apologies for being so thick-headed.

I said: I hate never catching and being told it is all my fault because I'm not chasing hard enough, or I'm chasing too hard, or I said something the wrong way two days ago, or I'm acting too childlike, or ...

blackfoot replied: You dont chase someone to surrender. apparently your asking your W what you want to receive also. If you dont know, how is she going too?

I also am spinning a bit on this one.

I said: I guess my trouble is I'm just not sure which way to go so I end up doing nothing.

Blackfoot replied: Yep thats a problem. Your also still trying to use tactics instead of defining what you require. I guess fearless was right about mean using these tactics. Fortunately your wife and women in general are not stupid.

Wow. I'm a bit hurt by this, but I guess the truth hurts. In my mind I'm trying to think of what I want from my M and doing what I thought was needed to get there. It would not surprise me if I'm going about it the wrong way. So is what you are saying is that I should just clearly state what I want and the let the chips fall as they may? I guess I was just trying in my own sad way to be playful and it is backfiring on me.

blackfoot: I need a little "Mystery" on my shoulder. (wink wink nudge nudge)

I said: You should call him and tell him then. I find this insulting. wink wink nudge nudge what? I know these guys... not know of... know... and yet Ive never mentioned it, nor ever initiated any conversation about them, nor the fact Ive blown out or 'AMOGed' one of his associates, in front of a 'class' in Hawaii, during a random encounter, just because I detest his gynephobic, misogynistic former associate.
Dont ever group me in with those entertaining monkeys again, or Ill let you pay them for their opinions.

Again, a joke. I was just trying to poke fun, get a rise, like I do with some of my other male friends, tease and all. I made a poor assumption and I do sincerely apologize for it. Won't happen again.

BELIEVE me that I don't lump you in with those guys. The only connection in my mind was the word "attraction." I too found the show rather silly, part of the same tired-out (but not yet played out apparently) reality show circuit.

Again, just was just trying to joke around, sorry if it came across the wrong way. Sorry if my humor is in poor taste.

Im not at your beck and call, and Im not an actor who rehearses lines, and Ive never recommended seduction guru's as role models. I dont use false rapport because I detest liars and cheaters, and have real boundaries and know who I am and what I want.

Understood ... except for the having real boundaries part in my case

Me: Hey pretty lady, come on over here with me on the couch and let's cuddle for awhile. Supplicating.
Her: I don't want to, we always fall asleep when we cuddle on the couch and then I can't go to sleep later.
Me: I'll bet I can get you tired enough to go to sleep later. You have an agenda, and your not listening to what she said.
Her: (exasperated sigh and shake of head, turns back to computer)
Me: (moves over to the easy chair), there, come on over, my lap is getting anxious waiting for you (I know, not the best lines in the world, but what the hey) Why are you using lines on your W? Still supplicating, pressing your agenda and not interested in what she she was trying to tell you.

OK, I feel stupid, and not in a P/A "I'm trying to make you guilty for making me feel stupid." I just generally do feel stupid. Believe it or not, I didn't originally have as an agenda to have sex, I just wanted to cuddle. I can see how I came across that way by morphing what I said. I feel stupid in that in that I do get wrapped all around myself trying to come up with the "right thing to say" when I guess I should just say what is on my heart. The problem is that what was on my heart was that I was hurt by her rejection (even if it wasn't a rejection in ya'lls minds). I was thinking in my mind "be confident and just "blow through" that feeling of rejection. Stupid. So should I have pursued the "falling asleep" statement to find the source of the issue. I guess that makes more sense than what I did.

Thats not a boundary. Thats chasing. Would you prefer if she were attracted to seduction artists? I sure wouldnt. I prefer someone with a little more discernment.

I agree. Contrary to how it may seem to you (and perhaps other), I do really love my W and plan to stick this out. I sometimes let anger (at the situation, caused by me) or fear or sadness drive me. I haven't found that "equanimity" that oldtimer mentions.

you should read my post to AC. When I give ex. Im not providing lines, Im trying to offer the guy a little emotional jog to see if that is how he feels about the sitch. Men are forced to suppress their emotions so much they have a hard time identifying them.

I never did think of them as lines like a pickup artist, my word choice earlier was (along with everything else) in poor taste. I was just trying to be playful and missed badly. Apologies for misinterpretation. I do see how your helping me decide what to think/say is based on trying to capture a feeling. I'm just not there in terms of putting it into action. I hope that I can be.

Suppress does not = in control of. The last time you suppressed you emotions it exploded into 2 affairs. I would think you would be done with that.

I am, and I don't want to supress myself. I'm just afraid of myself, making too many mistakes, not feeling the way I'm supposed to, failing so much and so often. And that fear is a vicious loop I'm having a hard time getting out of, even in two years.

Let me know when you are done trying to make me perform for you.

Done. Never was my intention to do so, so really done.

And again, I truly am sorry about all that. And I'm sorry about polluting the board with my stupidity. I wish I could say that I was just trying to provide a helpful example of what not to do.

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