Mojo, and Hap Maybe what you are trying to convey is that women lose respect for men who offer validation in response to such behavior instead of recognizing it as a sign of arousal or desire.
When you wear your low rider jeans and pink t-shirt that provides more color then coverage, and Victoria secrets bra that turns your mammaries into man killers, when you have your warpaint and your hair pouffed, are you signalling arousal in a general advertisement, or are you seeking validation? When you go to meet up with NG, do you wear you little black dress, or do you wear your coveralls, so he can appreciate you for you pilgrim soul? And when freezer isle guy 'validated you' and signalled his arousal was it succesful? I appreciate you clarifing though. What you said above is very accurate. How about if I just grunt in your general direction and you translate what I mean. You do good.
It's more validating if a man conveys "Seeing you in that dress really turns me on." but it's more sexy if a man comprehends "Wearing that dress must really turn you on.". Of course, the communication must go both ways.
Thats not comprehension thats mind reading. Gay guys would have no problem comprehending that, and would verbally demonstrate there comprehension. gay guy: Wooo GGGIRRL. You are OOOONNNNN fire TTOOonight. These guys dont even know whats coming for em. A man is going verbalize what HE, is feeling, about seeing your dress, He is not going to verbalize what you are feeling, in the dress.
3 in 50? might. 1 or 2 will be gay. When its obvious a woman has gotten all gussied up, giving her a lingering lascivious look and commenting 'I suppose you think you are going to get lucky, just because you got all dressed up for me.' would demonstrate he is reading her mind. 40 in 50 will think ' I wanna fcck that.' and say. 'wow. you look so hot.' 7 in 50 will think 'she is a slut' and say, ' lets go back to my place. I wanna show you my pet snake. ' The 7 are going to have a lot better chance then the 40, not because she is a slut, but because he is being straghtforward, made her laugh, and she assumes-- read her mind. So if you are not a mind reader, tell you Wife, when she looks good, 'lets go upstairs. I want to show you my pet snake.' Its better then saying ohhhh....' can we have sex?' or... 'will you have sex with me', like its some sort of gift she gives you, instead of something fun for the both of you.
Yes! because it displays more empathy on the part of the man, he is putting himself in your shoes - or dress! And feeling how sexy it must make you feel. Thats not empathy, thats mind reading. But thank you for telling us what you want to receive. Time to go enroll in those telepathy classes. The only way it could be empathy is if he dressed up in your clothes and went out and received cat calls and whistles. He would then have to feel sexually aroused by that, for it to allow him empathy. If it made him feel demeaned or gay, he would still not be capable of empathy. There is no part of radical honesty that includes mind reading.
If I dress up in lingerie it makes me feel horny, I don't do it to make H feel horny, although I guess he thinks I do it for him. Thank you. You guess?
Maybe with this, Cemar will come to realize his wife didnt blow him while driving down the freeway at the beginning of the R, for him. She did it for her own selfish reasons. If a woman feels sexy, she will be able to make herself feel sexier. If she doesnt feel sexy... she may put it on, but it doesnt come across the same way. At all.
What I feel like I want to do is walk around steaming hot and horny to such an extent that H thinks "If I don't jump her someone else will".
More mind reading and not biologically sensible. Thats a womans thought process. You cant jump a female to prevent someone else from coming after. Being first is line is no assurance. OM will still be milling around waiting, and she will just be hotter after you jump her, while the man will be depleted afterwards.
If someone else jumped my woman, without her permission, I wouldnt feel guilty for not jumping her first. What I would feel would have nothing to do with, or toward her. If its with her permission, then he didnt jump her. Regardless of whatever fantasy they are playing.
EDIT What I feel like I want to do is walk around steaming hot and horny to such an extent that H thinks "If I don't jump her someone else will".
Jealousy does not cause arousal in men. It nearly always does in women becasue its just another strong emotion, but in men the strong emotion it causes leads to shutdown, withdrawal, or anger. the anger can be expressed at the OM or at the woman. or both. This is a very dangerous and caustic game.
Hi I've been away on holiday and not kept up with my thread. Just got through reading the Radical Honesty book by Brad Blanton. Excellent book.
You're right that a man who believes himself to be in a committed R would not be able to process what the woman is doing by strutting her stuff in a sexually available way. What the woman wants is for the man to woo her again. I believe many men operate in hunter mode. They go out and hunt, they make a kill and they feel they have done the job; they have food in the pantry. Meaning they woo and marry a woman and feel like their work is done and they have sex available when needed. Cemar is a prime case of this. The woman does not feel this way, the woman wants the wooing game to continue - it makes her horny. Feeling that she is dead meat on the shelf does not. I believe many women are LD because they want the H to play the wooing game again. The HD woman's mind will operate in a different way and she will openly signal availability to others to try to tell her man that if he wants to keep her he'd better keep wooing her. In other words that the game he thought he'd won is still on.
If I recall your X started to throw herself at other men and you didn't respond. What she was trying to do was show that she hadn't been caught and killed and she wanted you to re-engage with the chase. But you already knew that. All women whether LD or HD want the chase to continue, we never want to feel like we have been caught for good and all.
Those lice ridden pirates start to look more interesting when you've been left for dead on the shelf by a pen-pushing landlubber.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
So what is the W's role in this ongoing wooing game? Keeping herself good looking and being fun to be around and interested in the man? Strutting her stuff on occasion to catch the man's eye? Or is the man supposed to just keep wooing no matter what, or the woman finds someone else?
I'm not trying to sound smarmy, I really want to know what the an "HD" woman's perspective is on this.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I believe many women are LD because they want the H to play the wooing game again. The HD woman's mind will operate in a different way and she will openly signal availability to others to try to tell her man that if he wants to keep her he'd better keep wooing her. In other words that the game he thought he'd won is still on.
IMO, these are both examples of avoidant or brutal fusion. When a HD woman actively tries to get action from her H that is clingy fusion when a LD woman tries to trade action for love or other stuff that is clingy fusion too. All dysfunctional. If the H is engaging in brutal withholding sexual fusion then the proper differentiated response is to put the monkey back in the cage for a time, clearly state the rules of the zoo and only as a last resort banish the H and open the zoo to new male sexual visitors.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I don't mind being caught. I don't mind being chased.
I love chasing, I love catching.
I hate never catching and being told it is all my fault because I'm not chasing hard enough, or I'm chasing too hard, or I said something the wrong way two days ago, or I'm acting too childlike, or ...
Quote:
I do very much mind indifference.
Ditto.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Never mind Hap. I can see how my anger (misplaced at my W and really at myself) bled through my comments to you. Sorry if my comments were hurtful or disrepectful to you. I really didn't mean it that way.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
You're right that a man who believes himself to be in a committed R would not be able to process what the woman is doing by strutting her stuff in a sexually available way.
Yep. I am always sexual. (except when Ive been emasculated. Maybe I will have the opportunity to work on that in the future.) That does not make me sexually available.
What the woman wants is for the man to woo her again
Im not going to say, no thats not what you want. I will say, what you are saying, and what that means to a man who has been taught to pat the bunny are going to create entirely differant scenario's in their individual heads.
How can you more clearly explain, 'I want to be woo'ed.' Right now most guys are thinking, flowers, dinner, jewelry....
Meaning they woo and marry a woman and feel like their work is done and they have sex available when needed. Yeah that is ridiculous. They think they havent changed from the beginning of the R.... How have they changed?
If I recall your X started to throw herself at other men and you didn't respond. She made herself available to him and when he would do something would come and tell me about it. It was confusion at first. My doing nothing hurt her. NMJ. Wasnt in the verbal contract or the legal contract. I will not be juiced. Her choice shocked me. JUICE!!. LOL. Not how she wanted though. Poof.
What she was trying to do was show that she hadn't been caught and killed and she wanted you to re-engage with the chase. I will never ever ever chase. Ever. Doesnt work. I didnt chase her to cause the reconcil. So if you want to help guys understand, youll have to explain better. If not... thats ok.
Those lice ridden pirates start to look more interesting when you've been left for dead on the shelf by a pen-pushing landlubber. LOL. Touche'
Never mind Hap. I can see how my anger (misplaced at my W and really at myself) bled through my comments to you. Sorry if my comments were hurtful or disrepectful to you. I really didn't mean it that way.
Huh?
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
The reason I can't really answer the question of what wooing behaviour would be is that I don't really know. It's one of the those you know it when you see it things. I think the responsibility cuts both ways and it is about what Mojo has been saying on her Recipe thread, it is about not taking the other one for granted, not acting like you deserve anything from the other. It is about making the effort just as you would for a new date. It doesn't have to be about expensive gifts, or scintillating nights out.
The thing that comes to mind is the way old people can be. Some old people act like they've had a hard life and now it's their turn to just sit back and let everyone else come to them, and they are hard work to be around. Some old people (like my neighbour who passed away last month) reach out and work at making relationships with people, they're still giving even when there's nothing left of them. He was a great old guy, couldn't walk, smoking himself to death, etc. But he bought sweets for my kids, and he kept hold of my spare front door key, he always had a few words to say to everyone that passed his gate. In return I was happy to change light bulbs for him, or give him things from my garden. My grandmother on the other hand always acted like you were a recently released criminal because you'd left it more than a fortnight to phone her (when did you last phone me Grandma?).
Yep, it's that old saw entitlement. I guess what I mean by wooing is acting the opposite of entitled.
Anyhow, my new pov is that the venn diagram which represents the fusion of my and my H's interests is a mere sliver, and that is not a problem. I like everything about my life right now and that is my doing and will continue to be my doing. There is nothing I can do to make my H's life any different to how he chooses to make it. He's a nice enough guy, I'm quite happy to interact with him when he is happy to do that, I no longer feel any need to interact with him more than he would like - it's his choice.
Thanks to Kettricken quizzing me about what my problem is with MB I decided to investigate. I've since found out that it works fine for me who knew. I obviously did have some deeply repressed problems with it. Catholic guilt no doubt, such deep rooted guilt that I wasn't even aware of it. Also thanks to Burgbud's comments about self validation I have even achieved the holy grail of mb to O without fantasy. And I have to say it is COOOOOL!!
Now when I feel horny, and I do feel horny all the time, I recognise that it is not necessarily a sexual need. It is something much better than that. It is a recognition that life is good, I get a warm buzzing sensation originating in my genitals that just tells me I'm enjoying life. I don't need to follow that through with actual sex or MB, I can just recognise it for what it is a warm buzzy feeling.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
You do good. 