My very elderly father is in the hospital, so I'm on the other side of the country trying to help my mom out. That's the main reason for my absence here. The other one is that at home things are changing and strange, and I'm not sure yet what to say/think about it.
Thanks for your thoughts. I'll definitely be looking for support and guidance soon!
Heimlich recommended that I read your posts and I was struck at the similarities. I don't want to hassle you about it now but would love a "chat" sometime in the future if you wouldn't mind?
Me:40 Him:42 2 children:D 2 years old, S 4 months old Married:3 years, together 5 years Bomb: 26 July 2007
Puddle, sweetie, I can tell you as an almost WAW that when our S tells us or tries to "remind" of of our children and family members (to really lay a guilt trip on us).....believe me, it backfire on you. I can imagine how livid you must be at your H's behavior! I know how awful I would be, so it is just a blessing that it was me and not my H that was the WAS!
For what it is worth, take the advice that has already been given to you about being the best gal out there for him and don't use the kids to make him feel guilty or try to make him come home like a daddy and husband should....it won't work.
Yes, I can testify to the fact that we WAS are too caught up in our own feelings. We make terrible wives, husbands, parents (even grandparents)...b/c our emotions are in total control....that is why we cannot think logically. Don't you get it? We can't do it until we can see through the fog again! And then the problem is not automatic cured. It takes time....lots & lots of time. Hope you can hang in there for the long haul.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Okay, I'm going to try to be succinct---not my strongest suit---and give you all an idea of what's going on here. I really need some help. Sandi, you're not going to like some of this!
Last week H was being very short and irritated with me; I was being my same old cheerful self. He sent me an email saying, okay, not buying your act for a second but I'm sick of walking on eggshells and wondering whether what I do or say might hurt you, so I'm going to go about my business. (I may have posted that part already.)
I went outside where he was and sat down, and he began to talk. He said as long as I'm not being honest we can't move forward. He'd be feeling hurt and disappointed if he were me.
I've been trying very, very hard NOT to talk about how I'm feeling. Seems counterproductive, would belie my acting as if to say, sure, I'm hurt and angry, but I'm not going to show it. I felt cornered, but could see clearly that we weren't going anywhere as things stood.
I told him sharing feelings requires trust, and I don't have a lot of that right now, and that since OW is a big part of his support, I didn't care to share my feelings with her.
He told me I'm making a big assumption. Told me that he'd told OW of his feelings and she was horrified, told him even if she had feelings for him she'd never act on them because he's, you know, married. Since then he hasn't been talking to her about me (but probably about his feelings). He said if he and I were talking about all this he wouldn't feel the need to discuss it with others.
I believe him re the PA. I had assumed it was happening to protect myself, and I may be an idiot, but despite everything, he's never been dishonest (that I know of).
So there I am trying to avoid talking about my feelings, and he's telling me essentially that this is one way we can connect, just the two of us. So I said, very calmly, of course I'm hurt, angry, and disappointed, I'm just focusing on becoming the person I want to be.
That admission turned him right around, and he acted normal and friendly, not distant or angry. He said to move forward and work on our R (partnership, not the M) I'd have to trust that he wants what's best for the kids (he might have said "everyone," not sure anymore). I told him that trust is hard. He said just because of what's going on doesn't mean I have to distrust the whole of him, gave me a typical H semantic argument.
I said (hang on Sandi), "When we brought our kids into the world, we worked hard to give them the best births; we work hard to give them the best education (I quit working to homeschool), and I trusted that we'd raise them together---not me, you, and your girlfriend---that we'd retire together, grow old together, and that trust is gone." He sat with that for a while and finally said he could understand it, and apologized for arguing.
This was last week, and a lot has happened in between, so I don't remember a lot of what was said. He again expressed concern about what I'm telling whom, that they're only getting one side of the story, what they might think of him, etc, then backpedaled and said it didn't matter, he couldn't do anything about it, it would have to be okay with him. He's big on that "and that'll have to be okay." I have told a total of 3 people, and he's assuming I've told many more. I'm keeping that card close to my chest, and I'm not sure why, other than out of spite, to be honest. Thoughts?
At the end I said, "You must be extremely unhappy for this to seem like the best option." He said, "It's not fun." I told him I'm worried about DS1, who keeps everything in and won't talk about his feelings. You know it's coming, Sandi. Finally I said, quietly and sadly, "I can't believe you're doing this to them. And I can't believe all I can do is help them pick up the pieces." He had his face in his hands, weeping, and I went to bed. He also asked if he could sleep in the big bed with the kids, and I said yes. Wasn't sure I should, but he clearly needed it. He also didn't specify that I should sleep elsewhere, but I assumed he meant that, and did.
He also thanked me for talking (we had a couple of long talks), said it was a big turnaround and he appreciated it.
Okay, that's one part. Then all the stuff happened with my dad, I had to run off across the country. I found a friend to watch the kids one day, but DH had to take a few days off work, which he did willingly (though not enthusiastically).
While I was gone, he had a hard time with the kids. Sent me snappish, businesslike emails about how awful our babysitting network is, no one's available, one leaves the house a mess, etc etc. I responded with sympathy, though I was irritated.
After I'd left, I realized I'd left my journal right out on the front table. I didn't imagine he'd read it, but you know, it's hard to know what to trust in the midst of all this. My sister was going to my house to pick up her sunglasses, so I asked her to grab it and bring it to my folks' house (she was flying out, too). Got a text from H saying, "Really subtle. She comes to 'look for her sunglasses' and you're journal's gone. Maybe it's time to change my passwords." I left a message saying laughingly, hey, I want to write in my journal. Sorry you're feeling insulted, and of course you're welcome to change your passwords whenever you feel like it. He didn't mention it again and was friendly.
He also sent me an email saying he wants to toss a couple questions out there. Said I'm working on building the life I want, and I've put all these restrictions on him (he mentioned him not seeing anyone until I'm ready, which I may have said but can't recall; if I did it was at the very beginning; keeping his girlfriend stuff out of the house, etc), so what about the life HE wants? Asked is this OUR house or MY (mine, not his) house? How can he build the life he wants within the parameters I've set? Finished by saying I'm very dear to him, blah blah blah.
All I could muster as a response was of course it's our house, and you're dear to me, too.
Now I'm back home, got a big hug and a "Glad to have you back" (ouch), and he went rafting overnight. I was happy to have him out of the house.
So here's the thing. He wants to talk "honestly." I've always been good about sharing my feelings, but since this has all happened, I've not done that. I've been feeling lately that parts of DB just don't work for me/us, namely this lack of honesty. It's been feeling like game-playing, very fake for me. I may have misunderstood the concept. So how do I talk openly about my feelings? Just when he initiates an R talk and I can do it calmly and dispassionately? Not at all? Maybe it's enough for him that I've admitted to feeling hurt and angry.
Also, the idea that he's seriously considering living under the same roof long-term while pursuing other women scares the daylights out of me, and I know this talk is coming (re his last email). He's terrifyingly logical, and I can imagine him saying, look, this R is over, so what's the problem? It keeps me close by, saves money, etc. I think I'd just freeze up. This may be a good talk to have with a therapist; I think a disinterested party would help me feel safer.
Which brings me back to an earlier question. Can a good therapist help us "move forward" despite the disparity in our goals?
I spoke with an acquaintance who's a judge in family court here, and she gave me the lowdown on my legal rights. In short, divorce would be bad for both of us financially, but devastating to me in the long run. Needless to say, this was scary stuff to hear.
So I've got a lot of fear going on---fear that H is going to push for a situation I don't think I can live with and I'm going to have to draw a boundary I don't feel ready to draw (stay with us and keep your dating outside the house or leave), fear that he's going to perceive that as me kicking him out instead of him choosing to leave, fear that I'm going to be in poor financial shape in the not-too-distant future. And fear is obviously not the place I want to act from.
He still hasn't gone into all the other stuff he's alluded to that's going on with him, and that might be useful information. He's been so down in the dumps---withdrawn, short with the kids (while I was gone), mopey---and now that I'm back, he seems to be picking himself up a bit. He's checking out fun things to do (without me), getting out there a bit. Also scary for me, and I have to let that go.
I have five trips coming up in the next five weeks, three without him, two with. One is his parents coming out. We'll go with them for a week, during which H is planning to talk to them alone to tell them what's going on. I anticipate that this will be a very stressful trip, and I'd like to prepare myself as best I can. Not sure how.
To anyone who's read this post, thank you---your endurance is impressive. I know it's a lot, and I'd sure like to hear what you think. How/whether to talk about my emotions? The "our house" issue? Part of me is relieved to be in a good place with H talking about stuff, but it seems to pull me into a bad place mentally, right now anyway. Oh ugh. Okay, I'm going to stop now. So much for being succinct.
Hey sweetie, I've been trying to catch up on some of your posts b/c obviously I missed something. I don't want you to misunderstand what I meant about mentioning the children. What I meant was that sometimes S use the kids as "leverage" to hold on to their mate...but it doesn't work. However, I am certainly not suggesting that the WAS gets away from any of the responsibility of raising their children, etc. I believe there is a time and place to discuss these parenting responsibilities...and I know it can be tempting when a "desparate" S is wanting to remind the "wayward" S of their kids and what they owe them as a parent. However, that particular method does not work in trying to change their WAS mind. Your H sure sounds like a MLC case and maybe some more problems to boot. He does need therapy IMHO.
As far as you discussing your feelings....again, there is a time and place. I don't think it is the DBing idea to become a "fake". For some of us, I'm sure we would feel like one b/c it would be so foreign to our true personality or emotional response to certain situations. I think when the S brings up the subject of the MR (calmly) and invites you to discuss your feelings they are telling you that the "timing" to do that is okay. However, if they are "baiting" you into a fight....the timing in not right. I have learned (the hard way) that timing is EVERYTHING!
I kind of lost track (sorry) about the living arrangements....what about the basement? Anyway, I gather that he is wanting to live under the same roof....and see other women as well. Hummmm......talk about eating cake. There are certain things that Michelle writes about that I can't agree 100% with, but I won't get into all that right now. Frankly, I would have to go back and re-read this part, b/c I have read so many book lately. It is my personal belief that a woman (or man) should not put up with their S having PA while living under the same roof with them. Now, I say this as a wife that was ready to have a PA with OM! I respect my H for drawing the boundry and I would have to do the same if it was reversed. If he knows and plans to "date" while living in the same house as you....why on earth would you allow that? And, please don't tell me it is for the sake of the children! What is that teaching them? You can forget any moral character in their future if they see this displayed in front of them. To me, it is also telling them that women are not to be respected if/when a man can have PA with OW and still be "married" to the person under the same roof. That leads me to the next question....how could you have any self respect?
I agree with Michelle about the S staying in the house so that they can see you changing for the better, etc.(within reason). However, I don't believe a person should endure anything that would lower the moral standards before the children or to take away the respect for the other parent. EA's are one thing......PA's are another....but continuing dating OP or an on-going PA....that is out of the question!
It's your life sweetie and you have a lot to consider, but I hope you won't let him have his cake and eat it too.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
