It's interesting, on the eneagram institute website, there is a section talking about potential for addition, and 7s are the worst of the lot. Consciously, even tho I am a product of the 80s, I've never done coke because all the descriptions I've read made it sound like way too much fun for me.
Me too! Actually I tried it once ( I have to try everything once-sigh) and it did nothing for me. I hung out with "burn-outs" in high school and a very Bohemian crowd in college but I've never been a substance abuser. I hardly even drink and I've never smoked. I did a lot of cookie when I was in my SSM and I drink a lot of coffee but that's about it. Pretty much I'm high on life as long as life includes sexual positions I've never tried before, Christmas tree lights, books on how to make things out of apples, instructional hip-hop videos, trails not yet hiked, octopus salad, new business opportunities,land on which one could create a sunken garden filled with purple and red flowers clashing manically etc. etc. etc.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
give a man fish, and he will get hungry. Teach a man to fish....
Divorcebusting.com >>Forums >>Search results for query: spider vacuum FISH << Strange. Yes. I made that up. sigh. no Im not original. unfortunately. just STRANGE<<< so is this. Click it.
and blackfoot - you are way off on this
OK glad to hear it
trying to stay out of trouble (your sig line)
this is code for... Im trying to not commit adultery. Yes? Maybe Im way off. It happens. I enjoy it as much as everyone around me.
You know I have never -tried to not rob a bank. In fact I would have to put some significant actions into accomplishing said bank robbing. Probably I would start off by ruminating and fantasizing about it. Some people call that 'planning'.
suggestions as to why/why not an affair in this situation When I lose my mind with rage, I dont go around seeking opinions why I should murder the OP. I dig deep and ask myself, what I find acceptable, and then begin a series of events that lead away from and prevent that voice from getting his way. At least thats what I would do if I found it unacceptable.
Are humans really meant to be monogomous? What do OP have to do with this. What does that mean? MEANT to be? Are you saying you have no choice? inqiring minds want to know. There was a lady here a while back... southerngirl.... she told me 'it was inevitible'. Im not sure exactly what 'it' was though, she never clarified. Promised me answers and then left me eager and tingling with anticipation.
why is it so wrong for me to have sex on the side? Again, that is NOT my preference
If its not your preferance why do you keep coming back to it? Does you H talk about sex with OP this often?
However, I'm already at the point of walking away b/c of the sex, but I don't believe in divorce.
I wont even say it because -Im wrong. I heard you. That actually makes me happy. Being wrong that is. Im serious.
You know, you dont have to convice me. Im nobody.
In my life, I have found identifying and accepting myself has to come first and then I can figure out what I need/ and what to do to keep from blithely and blindly fckking up my life.
Its a work in progress.
I am NOT trying to emasculate my husband and if you fcck someone else do you think he will feel more masculine from that? loonyqt was a good nom de plume. LOL. Would it be some faceless c*ck shot from AFF, or would you need to be attracted to this imaginary OM first? Because if its 'just sex' then you wouldnt have to worry about your feelings getting in the way and messing up your marriage. our friend Mojo, used to talk about caring about just the sex, but recently seems to have changed her mind. Im very happy for her.
Would it be some faceless c*ck shot from AFF, or would you need to be attracted to this imaginary OM first? Because if its 'just sex' then you wouldnt have to worry about your feelings getting in the way and messing up your marriage. our friend Mojo, used to talk about caring about just the sex, but recently seems to have changed her mind. Im very happy for her.
Well, I think that's kind of an unfair characterization of me but I know you are just trying to help LQ. It's not like I joined this BB saying that all I wanted was "just sex" and now I've flip-flopped. When I joined this BB I was miserable because I felt like my 2bx's lack of sexual desire meant that he didn't love me. Getting to a place where I felt/thought that all I cared about was "just sex" was actually an improvement on that state of mind. So I think that LQ is actually 2 steps ahead of the game from where I was when I joined the BB. Basically she is where I was when I was feeling angry and going by the moniker MegaMojo - lol. I slipped back a bit into the MegaMojo mindset out in the dating world but that is just a self-protective reaction due to my lack of empathy for the male tendency towards "f*ck and flee." However, I find that I really have little desire to be a 42 year old Riot Grrl so I'm rethinking things. By the time my marriage ended, I was not really seeing lack of sex as the only problem. Here's how my marriage ended. I didn't cook dinner one night thereby signaling I was done using the cow to carry the marriage. My 2bx knew exactly what this gesture meant and initiated a convo the next morning. I indicated that I wanted him to commit or make a mature "choice" to engage in regular sex, weekly dates and/or some sort of shared activities like fixing stuff around the house, and maintain fiscal responsibility by not quitting jobs before he got a new one. His response was "I have no desire to play the stereotypical male role in this relationship." GAME OVER When I started dating other men, he freaked out and wanted me back but here is what he basically said "I love you. I need you. I think I have figured out what you can do to make me happy." I would have laughed with great weary cynicism if I hadn't been kind of frightened to find him standing over me at 3 in the morning. Of course, I didn't do absolutely everything I could have to make things better from my end before we split. Hindsight is 20/20 and I have learned a lot from throwing myself out in the dating world (One thing that happened is NG thought I was signaling sexual desire when I really wasn't. Clearly, he wasn't "feeling" desire but he offered me sex anyways, much in the manner of a generous host offering to bring up more beer from the cellar for a thirsty guest,and it was so clear to me that his confidence that there was plenty of beer down in the cellar was a large part of his ability to behave in such a manner coupled, of course, with a complete lack of feelings of resentment towards me. This simple gesture caused me to psychologically release the last of my sexual scarcity issues. I "remembered" that there is no need to be a rude, greedy little monkey because many/most men will gladly fetch you a beer as long as you don't attach a lot of validation needs to the request and knowing that it becomes clear that it is just a matter of basic politeness to not demand beer from men who clearly have empty cellars at the moment for whatever reason. My relationship with NG is doomed for obvious reasons but I love that man to pieces because he gave me exactly what I needed when I needed it, like an innkeeper who took a fist full of pennies from a monkey-urchin and gave her the bestroom in the house. Of course, he was greatly amused by my little monkey-show so good karma prevails.) but as of this moment there is not a thing I could/would do to salvage a relationship with a man who I can not admire because he won't even accept the basic personal responsibility of paying child support.
Sorry for the digression, LQ. I don't think your sich is as bad as mine. I feel like if you can get some insight into what you REALLY want and gain some empathy for different aspects of the masculine POV/psychology/biology, it is quite probable you will gain some success. For instance, as a HDW you probably already have more empathy for the masculine tendencies towards horniness and expression of emotional connection through sex in particular and viewing sex as "fun." Your problem is that there is a whole bunch of other masculine tendencies that you don't comprehend or understand or can't figure out how to possibly empathize with along with the fact that you are experiencing some culturally enforced denial of your own femininity. My new working theory is that the best way to become more feminine is to gain empathy for the masculine. In my opinion, the two hardest things to empathize with are the masculine desire to recharge in the cave or go to the cave when wounded and the masculine desire to "f*ck and flee." However, everything under the sun has a purpose so if we can just use our noggins I'm sure we can figure out why you are feeling unloved in your relationship and what in the heck I'm going to do in my dating life now that I've given up on finding a wolf.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
To add to your beer in the basement idea, some guys give the beer because they have it to give. Some guys give the beer because someone needs it and appreciates it. Some guys give the beer because the know it keeps only so long and are planning to make the next batch, but have to give the current batch away (to the same person or a new person) before it goes stale or what ever happens to beer. To some guys, making beer and sharing it with a friend is the ultimate pleasure in life. It can be like a compulsion.
It is also sad to make beer and have no one to share it with.
as of this moment there is not a thing I could/would do to salvage a relationship with a man who I can not admire because he won't even accept the basic personal responsibility of paying child support.
Mojo In my opinion, the two hardest things to empathize with are the masculine desire to recharge in the cave or go to the cave when wounded and the masculine desire to "f*ck and flee."
MoJo I consider myself a cave recharger but not a F and flee person.
The first, cave recharging is a place where I can think things through and mentally practice some things that hopefully have good outcomes.
The second, F & flee, some "boys" do that to avoid responsibility, to be free to sample all of the wares available, and other reasons I don't know about. My line of thinking is, F so it happens again and is an exclusive R.
Not paying child support would be a deal breaker for me.
My 2bx only. NG is an uber-responsible/involved father. He had an hour long convo with me about his difficulties in getting his children to eat a variety of fruits and vegetables. All the divorced Dads I've dated or communicated with at length have had at least 1/2 custody of their kids and it's so cute how maternal they get. I find myself talking about "Little House on the Prairie" on first dates. It's not a huge turn-on but at least it's an area in which I can speak knowledgeably. lol
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
The second, F & flee, some "boys" do that to avoid responsibility, to be free to sample all of the wares available, and other reasons I don't know about. My line of thinking is, F so it happens again and is an exclusive R.
In a weird way you are avoiding a certain amount of responsibility with that line of thinking. What if you were single and a woman you didn't know if you wanted to form a LTR with asked you for some beer? Women actually face similar dilemmas but it's more like usually women are the starting line-up then men play mid-game then the women take over again. The reason we have to play these kinds of games is that human beings aren't either fully monogamous or fully polygamous. My life would be a nightmare from h*ll if I had been bound for life to the first guy I had sex with. My life actually did pretty much suck because I was bound for 19 years to the first guy who knocked me up. There are decisions and choices to be made both before AND after you have sex with somebody or form a committed relationship. Whichever party is least suffering under a chemically induced delusion is the one who needs to take responsibility for making those kinds of decisions and choices.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
MoJo . In a weird way you are avoiding a certain amount of responsibility with that line of thinking. What if you were single and a woman you didn't know if you wanted to form a LTR with asked you for some beer?
OK, I was giving male motivations (according to my way of thinking) in addition to the situations you gave.
I haven’t got 100% use to females just wanting sex for the fun of it (no LTR implied or expected) with males they don’t know well. I know it happens and intellectually accept it. I had to have a mind shift happen, sort of like thinking male/female differences are not that great.
The second, F & flee, some "boys" do that to avoid responsibility, I had in mind boys=some one that thinks of mostly themselves/short sighted, rather than men=global relationship-near and distant future responsibilities.
If a man thinks like a boy, what is in it for him, to me he is immature. I mostly wanted you to see not all guys F & flee. Some mature males think F and keep.
I think Choc is not a F & flee, Zbube D’ed his W and came back. That certainly wasn’t a F & flee situation.
I consider my SD high, but my responsibility brake was so much stronger. I don’t see me as a F & flee type person.
You put forth 2 concepts. Cave and F & flee. I mostly wanted to validate I have the cave traits, but not the F & flee. If I am the way I am, other guys have the same traits. I wanted to steer you away from the F & flee and point out some guys are that way, some aren’t.
Add F & keep to the list. The question is do you want to keep him?
What if you were single and a woman you didn't know if you wanted to form a LTR with asked you for some beer? Thought provoking for someone that operated from a point, that if a person drank the beer, s/he essentially bought the brewery. (home brew model works here)
Before I started to date, I had these thoughts in mind, sex happens and so do babies. Because I barely could support myself, then I helped to support my mother, I thought how could I support 2 more people, so 99% of the time penetration sex didn’t happen. BB did loads of making out and we did sample the wedding cake a few times, as they say. For me there was no one else
My thoughts were no sex unless the woman was a qualified candidate for all 6 kids I was going to have. BB mostly qualified as that type of person but the $$$ thing early in the R wasn't right. I didn’t have that worked out on my end of the R. BB thought she and we did, but she was wrong.
The reason we have to play these kinds of games is that human beings aren't either fully monogamous or fully polygamous. I agree biologically. Social norms and morality codes/constructs tell many people they are or have to be monogamous. BTDT.
My FOO was all about monogamy. I was told and believed if I took it for a test drive, ran it off the approved roadway, I own it. Some test drives are offers to buy once the drive reaches a certain point. I didn’t buy all of it then and buy less of that line of thinking now. The basic responsibility thinking is still present.
Still I don’t think I (single) could have sex casually with a fertile woman without a fair amount of thoughts/anxieties about a pregnancy. There is no way I want to do the kid thing again and I absolutely wouldn’t want a kid to grow up w/o me being there all of the time.
Back to what I hear as the question, in my words, “what would a single Lou do if a single woman I didn’t know that wel,l asked me for some beer?
My list: Me single. Female not fertile or me getting snipped. R first, for 30 days, then beer. Aroma testing=yes, making out=yes. Medical investigation/review. Maybe some form of compatibility testing or quizzes. Both of us interviewing each of our friends casually. (I know, you are thinking, what a prude)
And yet there is a part of me that wants to give a beer to any deserving, respectable, thirsty female. It is difficult to give up those FOO moral codes.
I have had thoughts of sending my alter ego to some SS female poster’s locations and telling the woman to get out her favorite toy and I would hold her tightly or any way she wanted so she could feel cared for and that someone cared about her feelings.
The women have R’s I don’t want to influence and I have my own R and don’t want to damage it with an A, so all I can send is an imaginary alter ego, or something similar. Maybe someone has a better word for those type of thoughts. Helping w/o screwing anyone’s life up is what I wanted to convey. I haven’t seen it done so don’t know how to do it w/o screwing up something.
Just admitting that sometimes it is difficult for me to read about women who want something similar to what I want and yet at the same time knowing I can’t do it IRL.
Planning or acting on those thoughts? NONE. I think that wall is taller than any ladder I ever thought was legal/moral, so will say those were thoughts w/o plans to carry them out. It is good no one on the forum lives across the street. That would be a real problem.
So MoJo, there are thoughts and there are probable actions.
Your question about what I would do about giving a woman a beer in a STR? I guess I do a lot of listening first. I don’t need or want any more crazy making in my life.
My life actually did pretty much suck because I was bound for 19 years to the first guy who knocked me up……There are decisions and choices to be made both before AND after you have sex with somebody or form a committed relationship
Well, I didn’t like some of the after decisions/results you alluded to, so I reframed from most of the before actions. Me have Low sex drive=no, big brakes=YES. I steamed up a few windows when going out with BB. I can still steam up windows and more.
I often wonder if you were not knocked up first, but dated your H for a longer time, then got M, then in a couple of years got PG, maybe he would have been a better H. a perfect M, not likely but maybe something a little better.
I saw other couples fight (me at 12) about PG’s before M and I knew I didn’t want that excuse for BB or me as something to muddy the waters. M's are difficult enough w/o some comments like, “maybe I wouldn’t have M you if you weren’t PG.”
I think some guys feel trapped, get lazy, and don’t do a good job at being a H. I suspect the prince mentality wouldn’t have changed much. Too bad his parents contributed to his prince traits.
Depression, I saw that in my brother when I lived with him. It susks but was better than all the fighting/angry outbursts my stepfather had going on.
TMI or deflecting, I hope not. Did I answer your question?
It's my H & I's 7th wedding anniversary today. Happy Anniversary to us...
It's been a completely different dynamic since he came home after being gone for a week on Fri. Can't say it's good, exactly, but not horrible either. The one thing that's happened to me since looking for help on this board is that all my anger has been knocked out of my sails. I don't want sex (well, maybe b/c I started my period the moment I picked him up at the airport) - what I want is intimacy which I haven't really gotten but maybe haven't been altogether open to it either. I've been fairly avoidant and a bit weepy. As a crab (astrologically speaking), I have taken off my shell and am just really allowing myself to feel, and what I feel is sadness. I am trying to work thru it. It's scary when 2 hours of hard core kick boxing and weight lifting and sauna-ing don't help...
Anyway - today is not an altogether bad day (sat was one of those)... H got me flowers (star gazers which I love) and a card (which was most kind and loving) and jelly bellys (which I don't care for and I've been doling out to the kids as various rewards). I gave him a card, and am working on putting the calligraphy art of our vows and guestbook into round frames.
Happy labor day to everyone.
36 y/o HD in committed monogomous relationship for 15 years (at least on my end, assumed on his as well) 2 children, 6.5 dd & 5 ds
loonyqt was a good nom de plume. LOL. 
