Ah yes, I felt that way as well, I was with my S8 every night and that has been taken away from. But, and I discussed this with my IC, the times we do have together are now cherished sooo much more.
That is a great point, and as I think about it more now, I see this already too.
Originally Posted By: BirdDog
I think you are on your way to this type of detachment, at least that's what I'm foreseeing for you.
Well, that would be very good. Thanks for the support!
Bella (ok if I still call you that, or are you trying to get away from it?):
Originally Posted By: alk24
Quote:
Not a saint. Actually, interestingly and frightenly (is that a word?), I was in denial about my needs not getting met. My new awareness has made the deprivation much more difficult to take.
I'm so sorry, I know it's painful.
Thanks ((((Bella))))
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
Bella (ok if I still call you that, or are you trying to get away from it?)
No that's fine, I'm just trying to make it harder to find me. To tell you the truth, anytime someone calls me "bella" I'm not going to complain (even if I did call myself that first!)
Wanted to leave you with this thought for the holiday weekend, something my IC taught me.
"You can't furnish a room with the word couch"
It is the actual physical object in the room that furnishes the room. You can't just say "couch" and have a furnished room. The word alone is not enough, or a rose by any other name is still a rose. Just as in the word "marriage", you can't just say it and have a marriage, it is a two way agreement between 2 people, once 1 side breaks the agreement there is no longer a marriage, despite the fact that the other side keeps saying marriage.
If I remember correctly, part of your seperation agreement with your wife, was that she would no longer have the lunches w/ her OM. If she has broken part of the agreement does that not void the entire agreement? I think as an atty you would have some type of leagal-ease for this.
This thought would probably be considered anti-DBing, but there will come a time, and perhaps you are already there, where you may consider the fact that the M is no longer viable to save. Once you truly accept this fact, and IMHO you can't truly detach until you accept this fact.
Me: 41 W: 38 Son7 M 13 years 3/07 Bomb "This marriage isn't working for me anymore" S 5/26/07 Thread
I can understand how your feeling, I think maybe for a short week there I had a preview of that detachment, but nothing to the extreme that I imagine you are dealing with.
I have a private question I would like to ask you, if you don't mind emailing me?
Just as in the word "marriage", you can't just say it and have a marriage, it is a two way agreement between 2 people, once 1 side breaks the agreement there is no longer a marriage, despite the fact that the other side keeps saying marriage.
I guess my question would be when does the other side break it? By declaring they want to walk away? By saying all the alien things we know about? By having an affair? Not quite sure. Obviously, many legal marriages have survived these things (though you could describe those as being new Rs, if not technically second Ms).
Originally Posted By: BirdDog
If I remember correctly, part of your seperation agreement with your wife, was that she would no longer have the lunches w/ her OM.
Actually, that was something she said a week after the ultimatum I gave her a week fater discovering the EA. When we set the terms of the S, we said "not see other people." She takes the position they are just friends/co-workers, and this is not dating. She also says OM doesn't even know we are S'd. I know. I have my doubts, and may just be a fool.
Originally Posted By: BirdDog
If she has broken part of the agreement does that not void the entire agreement? I think as an atty you would have some type of leagal-ease for this.
It's called a breach, and legally speaking breaches don't necessarily void an entire agreement. Sometimes breaches can be cured. Sometimes, if there are damages, the non-breaching party just needs to be made whole. Sometimes a breach can be waived or excused. Not sure how analagous all of that is to Ms, but there are clearly many Ms that survive infidelity and other "breaches" of the vows/commitments.
Originally Posted By: BirdDog
This thought would probably be considered anti-DBing, but there will come a time, and perhaps you are already there, where you may consider the fact that the M is no longer viable to save.
I don't think it is not possible to save our M. I just think it is a long shot, primarily because my W has lots to understand/accept/do, and at this point she doesn't know what she doesn't know and she doesn't seem willing to work on it anywhere near as much as I would like.
Originally Posted By: BirdDog
IMHO you can't truly detach until you accept this fact.
This makes sense, but I would say you can't truly detach (or fully detach) until you either conclude (1) it is not viable to save the M or (2) you (the LBS) don't want to save the M.
Thanks again BirdDog for all the help. It is much appreciated.
Atlas, I sent you an email.
Nomo
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
This makes sense, but I would say you can't truly detach (or fully detach) until you either conclude (1) it is not viable to save the M or (2) you (the LBS) don't want to save the M.
I don't think this is quite right. I'll try to explain. If you conclude either one or two, you're done. There is no hope.
I think it's unlikely that my M will be saved, however, I still would like to and would be willing to work with my W to do so. I still believe that a M with my W is viable. However, I consider myself detached. I have accepted that my W is only that in a legal sense at the moment. She's a friend, nothing more now. Accepting this is not the same as giving up. To me, detachment came when the fear left. Really, we have lost our marriages. They are over. We are clinging to a dead R in the hopes of growing a new one from it's ashes. For me, as long as I was scared that "We're gonna get divorced, we're gonna get divorced" play over and over and over in my head I couldn't detach. My identity was too bound up in my M. What I've realized is that I'm me, whether in or out of a R with my W.
Let go of the fear. Accept that it may end in D -- really accept that, don't just nod in that fact's general direction. Begin to live your life for you -- and your kids. Really believe that you'll be OK, that you don't need your W. Let her go. She's already gone. None of that means she won't come back, but living in the fear that she'll leave is pointless, I realized. She's gone.
Sorry, that was pretty much a mental dump. It's hard for me to articulate this particular point because I'm still grappling with how I got here, mentally. Hope that helps.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
This makes sense, but I would say you can't truly detach (or fully detach) until you either conclude (1) it is not viable to save the M or (2) you (the LBS) don't want to save the M.
I don't think this is quite right. I'll try to explain. If you conclude either one or two, you're done. There is no hope.
I think that is why I added the concept of "fully detached." Fully detached is you really no longer have hope, don't care at all, don't think about it at all, including being open to it if W comes around. If you are fully detached, you wouldn't say that you still want to save the M.
Otherwise, I pretty much agree with everything else you said about detachment.
Originally Posted By: Heimlich
Let go of the fear. Accept that it may end in D -- really accept that, don't just nod in that fact's general direction. Begin to live your life for you -- and your kids. Really believe that you'll be OK, that you don't need your W. Let her go. She's already gone. None of that means she won't come back, but living in the fear that she'll leave is pointless, I realized. She's gone.
I believe I am already at this point. And if not quite, damn close.
Thanks Heim/BD! Have a great Labor Day Weekend!
Nomo
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
Gotcha. We're talking about the same thing, different words. I lump detachment as what I described. Your "fully detached" equals my "I'm done."
Have a great weekend yourself. Turkey legs at the Maryland Renn Fest. Huzzah.
If you've never been to the Texas Rennaissance Festival, highly recommend it. Your kids would have fun. Turkey legs are always good and there's a fair amount of shade at the one in Texas. (I'm from Lake Charles and used to go every year until I moved up here).
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
Just going to jump in here with a quick pre-Labor day drive by (not really pulling a BK...just that i won't be back on here over the long weekend)
Quote:
I don't think it is not possible to save our M. I just think it is a long shot, primarily because my W has lots to understand/accept/do, and at this point she doesn't know what she doesn't know and she doesn't seem willing to work on it anywhere near as much as I would like.
Just a little food for thought generated by this statement. i preface this with saying that obviously you know your own sitch better than anyone.
That being said, maybe it's partly just looking at your sitch relative to so many on here, maybe it's partly projection on my part (and wishful thinking that my H would go to either MC or IC), but I have always seen your W's willingness to go and seemingly active participation in the beginnings of some hard work that it sounds like you've done in MC and the fact that she's willing to go on her own to this great counselor who clearly is working on the side of resurrecting your marriage as an indication that she is trying to figure this all out, too.
Maybe not nearly as much as you would like, not yet, and maybe she never will, and ultimately that will not be acceptable to you, but i just guess looking from the outside in, don't let 'pusher nomo' rule the day... this is doubles we're all trying to play, not singles...
That being said, maybe it's partly just looking at your sitch relative to so many on here, maybe it's partly projection on my part (and wishful thinking that my H would go to either MC or IC), but I have always seen your W's willingness to go and seemingly active participation in the beginnings of some hard work that it sounds like you've done in MC and the fact that she's willing to go on her own to this great counselor who clearly is working on the side of resurrecting your marriage as an indication that she is trying to figure this all out, too.
Great point L2, fwiw, I have thought this as well.
