Nomopo's Thread - Is something happening to me?

[bar]

Hi Nome!

Gone and done it and basically said I'll help you pack. When he started on the past poop I agreed that I played my part but said I saw things differently. He wants me to understand why he is doing this and give him my approval. He was crying and blubbing but I let him get on with it and resisted the imoulse to hug him.

So he's taken some stuff over to OW and I've packed as many clothes and things I can lay my hands on. Put it all in his room.

Will have to see what tomorrow brings. I just can't stand it any longer. Hope he takes the whole lot away, including himself.

Hope you are ok.

[Nomopo]

Hi MsR8t! Great to hear from you stranger! Did I miss your update?

Thanks for the welcome home bar!

Wide_awake: Love the new handle!!! And glad to hear from you too.

As I was reading your feelings and talking about the line you are approaching, it struck me that that line is very similar to the one your W has already crossed.

In that JC session, W said she was, like me, hovering near that line, not that she had crossed it. But . . . I agree with this:

We learn with DB that the feelings are gone and it will take a lot of work to get them back and thus the DB practices are put into motion.

And if either of us cross that line, I do think we oculd get them back if we wanted to and put in the effort. So . . .

So, I guess what I'm thinking is why is your line different than hers? Why are your feelings any different?

They are no different for me than for her. Good point.

I'm sounding confrontational, not at all. Just thinking that the same rules apply for all of us. Someone wrote that earlier-I would try because at the core of our beliefs with DB is that feelings grow and wane and grow again.

I didn't take it as confrontational, and I agree with the last part about feelings.

I'm starting to see marriage and love as a journey, not a destination.

That makes sense. Thanks so much for chiming in W_a. Where's your current thread?

Hello ewe!!! So good to hear from you. You are helping so many people!!

just wanting to let you know that I still have faith in you :).

Thanks. So do I.

Everything will be OK. You are a really good man, I am convinced that your W will realize that eventually.

I know everything will be ok one way or another, and I appreciate the kind words and vote of confidence. Right now, I do still want to save my M, but I am letting go. Maybe that will help my chances. If not, I'm really ok with that too.

Ewe, I read the success story you posted, and loved it. Thanks so much!!!!

Hi delia, dlt1 (thanks for the kind word - I value my Fs here so much), GD, CVA and ItsKat (sorry I made oyu worry about me )!

Hello Heimlich. Are you the new most active poster around these parts? Kind of feels like it.

Never wanted to tell you this, but I'm glad you took a break. Toward the end, I think you were wearing yourself too thin by focusing so much on the interaction between you and your W and less on you (if that makes any sense).

It makes a lot of sense.

You know what, detachment, while scary, ain't all bad. Depending on the day, I'm 95 to 98% there.

I agree and that is good about your progress!!

Hi n_a! Hope you have been well.

The hardest part for me right now is I am restricted by these "agreements" we reached regarding our S (namely, that we will wear our rings, not date, not tell people we are S'd, and not split finances). I am considering asking W to revisit these with me.

Maybe I'm just being nosy, but which of these these things do you want to change? Are you hoping to initiate that discussion for the sole purpose of changing those agreements or are you hoping that it will jolt her into realizing that you're truly detaching from her? Maybe both?

The main one I would want to change is the not being public about the S. I have been going out, seeing lots of people I know, and being secret about it, and having to downright lie about it, has been difficult, awkward and uncomfortable for me. I might also like to change the rule about not dating. As I feel more and more moved on, and as I start to accept the very very very real possibility (likelihood?) that we may not save this M, I do think about meeting someone new, and spending some quality time with someone else. That is very attractive to me right now. It has been a long time since someone showed any interest in me, has showed me any affection, and was intimate with me. And I know that there options/possibilities out there.

My main motivation is I am tired of having to hide this fact of my life. I have been living a lie for a long time. We have been in a loveless, sexless sham of a M for more than two years, but have been hiding that from almost everyone. So, I aguess I am tired of not being open about it, and I guess I am also tired of feeling like I have been in a holding pattern. Sort of ready to move on with my life.

Now the thought that this kind of thing might (and I stress might) jolt my W awake has occurred to me, and if that was a byproduct of my action, then that would be good. But I don't think that is why I am considering it. And it might very well push her the other way. It's hard to be sure. I do think she is very worried about going public because she is very worried she will be viewed as the bad guy. And no doubt many people would view her that way. That's what happens when you have an affair with a co-worker. (What she doesn't seem to admit to herself is that many people probably already expect it given their very very very close "friendship.")

I am trying to detach from W (lovingly - that is super hard for me cause I do feel resentment, anger, bitterness when I let myself) and focus on me and my kids!

This is what I need help with. How do you go from being resentful, angry and bitter to being in a position to lovingly detach? What do you tell yourself at those times when you're feeling especially resentful and you need to interact with your w?

Very tough stuff. Check back later when I journal on my last IC session. (Maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow or this weekend.) We have decided that somewhere down the road we are going to use the IMAGO dialogue technique to try to get W to validate my anger, bitterness, resentment, etc., because W seems to not be able to understand why in the world I might feel that was (and show it at times in our interactions). But that is tricky stuff. W is going to see our C alone for a while, and I think C is going to try to prepare W for that JC session. Might be real good.

Hi Donna (again)!

Oh, a note about "going public": See if you can get ahold of the book, Uncoupling. There may actually be benefits to the fact that your W is unwilling to make this public knowledge...it shows that she hasn't yet chosen to change her ID from that of a partner in a marriage to a single person.

Good point. I do think the most likely explanation for her not willing to go public relates to the fact that she isn't completely sure she is done with me. I will check out the book! Thanks again.

Hi Will!

The one question I do have: We talked a month or so ago about counselros/therapists. You said when I feel i'm ready, we'll talk about how to choose the right kind/a good one. When you have time, i'm ready for the input.

Did I post a response about this on your thread recently? I meant to the other day, but can't recall for sure. If not, just let me know and I'll give you my thoughts. It doesn't go much beyond what Michele wrote in DR (pp. 131 on, I think), so be sure to read that part.

BirdDog! Another long time, no hear friend of mine. I hope you are doing well!

The hardest part for me is moving on/detaching while being "nice" or loving or happy/cheerful/positive/upbeat. In other words, moving on/detaching while acting as if. That is a fine line to walk, but I am still working on it.

I had the exact same problem and discussed it with my IC. I was able to be nice towards W while I saw there was hope for a R, as that hoped died I started to let some of anger out.

The anger was there while I still felt there was hope for a R, but was able to put it aside. He asked me if I could put it aside once again even w/o the hope of an R, that it shouldn't be that much different. I thought about it and answered yes, then I just went it did it. I am now in a completely different place and moving on with my life, at times interacting w/ W still feel tense, but not so much anger. I think as time goes by those tense feelings will disapate as well.

That is good stuff. I guess I have to work on it, and will try to do so. I also think if I am able to get W to validate my reasons for being angry (she never has - and most WAS won't can't and we;re not supposed to even try, but now that I am detaching and told W and now that she will see our C alone for a few weeks the C and I think we should try), it may help.

I have even been feeling over the past couple days that she did me a huge favor by ending the R.

Oh, I have felt like this a lot recently. This is what I think started/accelerated my detaching. But for the kids, I would feel exactly like this and would probably be long gone.

bar! I must have lost track when your thread locked. Sorry. I'll try to get caught up soon.

Gone and done it and basically said I'll help you pack. When he started on the past poop I agreed that I played my part but said I saw things differently. He wants me to understand why he is doing this and give him my approval. He was crying and blubbing but I let him get on with it and resisted the imoulse to hug him.

That all sounds like you handled it well. Don't give him approval unless you approve. Only validate if you can. Good job on no hug.

Will have to see what tomorrow brings.

Yep. We always will. Hang in there kid.

Nomo

[alk24]

And hi alk24 - don't think we've met before. Welcome to my world.

It's me, Mandi..I changed my s/n while you were gone. It's so good to see you doing so well.

[Nomopo]

Bella? Is that you?

[BirdDog]

But for the kids, I would feel exactly like this and would probably be long gone.

Nomo,

Perhaps this where our sitch's differ. At 1st alot of reason for staying attached was because of worries for S8. But, he is having no visible problems whatsoever w/ the S. He is a very adaptable kid, and I also took this as a sign of the way our M has been over the past several years, where we essentially were living seperate lives in the same house.

Dating OP has allowed me to follow through w/ the detachment. Several of the people I dated were similar in many ways to W, the one that I am forming the strongest bond w/ is completely different from W. We have much more in the way of common interests. She is a WAW as well, w/ a former spouse who dispite being seperated for 2 years and divorced for over a year now, is still having detachment issues. He does drive-bys on her house still today and very rarely goes a couple days w/o trying to contact her. It's funny, but we talk about what he is going through and I am able to give her what his perspective is, through my personal experience. She is also able to help me see what my W is going through, by sharing her experience.

[alk24]

Bella? Is that you?

yep. Hey!

[Heimlich]

I do think about meeting someone new, and spending some quality time with someone else. That is very attractive to me right now. It has been a long time since someone showed any interest in me, has showed me any affection, and was intimate with me. And I know that there options/possibilities out there.

Two years!??!?!? It's been four months for me and I'm about to got out of my skin. You. Are. A. Saint.

Just a quick thought on detachment. A combo of things got me here. Most important, I think, was really understanding all I did to get my R to this point. Sure, my W made mistakes (beyond having the A). At the same time, I wasn't there for her to make her feel as special as she deserved to feel because I was so wrapped up in myself that I wasn't really giving to her -- or my girls -- on a consistent basis. The love was inside of me, but it wasn't getting out. I finally fully felt that my R with my W is over. We might get to a new one, but the one we had is dead. I knew that, but didn't feel it. The practicality of going through D mediation made it very real. Once there, I realized that it didn't mean the end -- I have a year before it's final. Who knows what may happen? Some combo of these things just finally gelled in my mind and it was like, "OK, it really is over and these are the things that I can do that MAY/MIGHT/COULD bring us back together (no expectations) but that I really am going to be OK either way. I'm going to be better than OK because I'm beginning to understand myself better than ever."

Honestly, you sound like you're there, but are held back by a tiny shred of doubt.

I'm not going to say that you should or should not revisit the Sep agreement with your W. I will suggest that if you don't, you're on the edge of becoming bitter and angry towards your W, which will eat away at you and eliminate any chance of reconciliation.

You don't want to hurt your W or make her look like the bad guy. But, you know what, she IS the bad guy (kindof). If she gets some heat/feels some pains because of her actions. Well, those are self-inflicted wounds caused by HER. Not you. You aren't responsible for her actions or the pain they cause her.

Hello Heimlich. Are you the new most active poster around these parts? Kind of feels like it.

Oofah, hadn't really noticed until I looked at my post number. Whoa. Hey, we all had to step up when you took a much-needed break

Anyway, my 2 pennies on a Friday morning.

BD

[Nomopo]

Ok Mandi - maybe you can explain the new handle later. Guess I missed it. Thanks for keeping up with me!

BD, good stuff. Thanks mucho for posting to me. Are you going to reactivate your thread (or did I miss it)?

But for the kids, I would feel exactly like this and would probably be long gone.

Nomo,

Perhaps this where our sitch's differ.

I guess it is a difference in our respective levels of detachment. I know my kids will be fine after a D, but I honestly believe they would be best off if we could work this R/M out to what it should be and be together (all in one house), and at this point I still would prefer that result and I am open to trying to get there. But I am less willing than not long ago. And, it is not just for my kids. I would MUCH prefer to see my kids every night, tuck them in every night, etc.

Dating OP has allowed me to follow through w/ the detachment.

This makes perfect sense to me. Once I enter that phase, I suspect I will think less and less and less about W.

Hey BD! Really good post. Thank you.

Two years!??!?!? It's been four months for me and I'm about to got out of my skin. You. Are. A. Saint.

Not a saint. Actually, interestingly and frightenly (is that a word?), I was in denial about my needs not getting met. My new awareness has made the deprivation much more difficult to take.

Most important, I think, was really understanding all I did to get my R to this point. Sure, my W made mistakes (beyond having the A). At the same time, I wasn't there for her to make her feel as special as she deserved to feel because I was so wrapped up in myself that I wasn't really giving to her -- or my girls -- on a consistent basis. The love was inside of me, but it wasn't getting out.

I could have written this. I especially like the last sentences. Our WASs don't realize this, but it doesn't really matter how we feel, only what we do, to those around us.

I finally fully felt that my R with my W is over. We might get to a new one, but the one we had is dead. I knew that, but didn't feel it.

This is interesting. I know it. Not sure if I feel it. That feeling may be starting, and that may be contributing to the changes. I also think a big impetus for the change was my stronger realization in W's shortcomings and her role in our demise and how far she would have to go to get to where we both want/ought to be.

Honestly, you sound like you're there, but are held back by a tiny shred of doubt.

This is absolutely possible. I really don't know. I feel like the main things holding me back are (1) wanting to do what's best for my kids by working it out and staying married very happily and (2) realizing that we need to fix our issues, rather than just move on to the next Rs thinking they will be different. Even if I have learned a lot for the next R, I will need a partner who is in the same place (W or otherwise) or we could be here again.

I'm not going to say that you should or should not revisit the Sep agreement with your W. I will suggest that if you don't, you're on the edge of becoming bitter and angry towards your W, which will eat away at you and eliminate any chance of reconciliation.

Good obvservation, and could be true. I am trying to let go of the anger and bitterness on my own, and I think I am having some success. Also, check out my next journaling entry (to come) about how C and I hope that at some point W can validate some of my anger, frustration, etc. which I (and C) think will help me get past it. Isn't that the whole point of validation?

You don't want to hurt your W or make her look like the bad guy.

Actually, this is only if we stay together, I guess. Otherwise, not at all my problem and I think I might actually like it. (Of course, that's not great for my kids to have their mom look like a bad person.

But, you know what, she IS the bad guy (kindof).

I agree (not just kindof).

If she gets some heat/feels some pains because of her actions. Well, those are self-inflicted wounds caused by HER. Not you. You aren't responsible for her actions or the pain they cause her.

Agree, 100%. I'm comfortable with her living with those consequences.

Thanks again BD and BD!

Nomo

[BirdDog]

Are you going to reactivate your thread (or did I miss it)?

No, I haven't reactivated, it was kind of a therapy for me, and I just haven't felt the need for it, but was wondering how your sitch was going.

And, it is not just for my kids. I would MUCH prefer to see my kids every night, tuck them in every night, etc.

Ah yes, I felt that way as well, I was with my S8 every night and that has been taken away from. But, and I discussed this with my IC, the times we do have together are now cherished sooo much more.

Interesting thing happened to me this morning. I had to drop S8 off at daycare as it was my night w/ him, so I left much later for work. Well, a car turns onto a highway ramp a couple cars in front of me, and it's the W. My very 1st reaction was to follow her and see if OM was with her. Put the turn signal on to make the turn, then just as quickly turned it off and continued my way to work, didn't dwell on it, even chuckled at myself for having that intial reaction, but was even prouder of myself for so quickly dimissing the reaction. I think you are on your way to this type of detachment, at least that's what I'm foreseeing for you.

[alk24]

Even if I have learned a lot for the next R, I will need a partner who is in the same place (W or otherwise) or we could be here again.

You're absolutly right on that, it takes two people to make or break it.

Not a saint. Actually, interestingly and frightenly (is that a word?), I was in denial about my needs not getting met. My new awareness has made the deprivation much more difficult to take.
Not a saint. Actually, interestingly and frightenly (is that a word?), I was in denial about my needs not getting met. My new awareness has made the deprivation much more difficult to take.

I'm so sorry, I know it's painful. My husband stopped sleeping in our bed in January. So we spent 4 months under the same roof with no physical contact what so ever. This has been very hard for me b/c most of the time a man won't turn down sex, a woman is much different. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is yeah, that sucks.