My other thread seems to be locked, so here goes number 2.
Last night H went to go check out some new cafes, and came home around 7:30 am, first time he's ever been away over night. My oldest wakes up, goes to look for papa, comes back to bed and says nothing. Later he says, "Where's papa? He didn't come home." I say, "I don't know. I'm sure papa's fine and he'll be home soon." H comes in, says he fell asleep in his car.
To me, it's more than a coincidence that he did this immediately after he agreed the kids didn't need to know anything as long as their lives are unaffected. I feel like he subconsciously pushed it, in a brutally passive-aggressive way, so we can tell them and he can feel relief, or he's reached a new level of selfishness. I am so livid I can hardly think.
In that spirit, I'm trying to get my anger out. I've written him a letter that I have (almost) no intention of ever showing him. I hope it's okay to post; it's not the cheeriest thing ever (and it's a first draft, which is why it seems to start in the middle). Also, the analogies I give are ones he's given me:
"You seem to need me to understand so badly, maybe just so you can know I’ve given up hope and you can be comfortable around me. You say there’s nothing to disagree with. You don’t want to be married to me, unhappily, happily, or any other way---you simply don’t want it. What’s to disagree with?
I was good enough for you when you were “damaged,” as you say, I served a purpose. But now that you’ve gotten in touch with yourself, know what you really want, are being true to yourself, your first move is to dump your loving and loyal wife and knock the foundation of your kids’ security out from under them. If this is how you christen your new life, it’s no life to celebrate. You’re not gay, you’re not born again (show me the god who tells you to leave your family), and I’m not a mediocre job you can simply trade up from. If you were gay, you bet I’d be angry. I’d be angry that your denial cost me my family and trust. And I’m angry that you decided to create a family with me when you were so f***ed up you didn’t make a good choice, and now that you’re “the real you,” I’m suffering for it, as are your kids.
Again, it’s not your feelings I disagree with. Feel any way you want. It’s your choice I’m angry about. You’ve decided you want something else, and that comes before me, before even your children. You say you’d be unhappy if you stayed. So it’s you or us, and you choose you. We’re all on the tracks and a train’s coming, and you jump out of the way. You say since you’d be unhappy if you stayed, it would be selfish of you not to go. How convenient. You get to leave AND not be selfish. Be clear: you’re choosing what YOU want to do for YOU, without regard for what it will do to anyone else, and that’s the definition of selfish. You say you may not find happiness by leaving, but it’ll be worth it anyway. I think your children would beg to differ.
You used to be so disgusted with ****, “just not cut out to be a father.” Yeah, well, suck it up, you said. You couldn’t stand to be around *****, cheating on his wife. Do you think you’re different? Or do you think you’re all just misunderstood, honest guys? Well my friend, welcome to the new you. You’re deluded and pathetic, and you’re taking us all down with you."
There. Maybe that'll help, and by the time he gets home from his rafting trip, I'll be able to speak calmly.
I'm going to have to say something to him about staying out all night, I think. He can't possibly really want to keep things normal for the kids and do things like that, so I feel like I need to know the truth there. Unfortunately for the kids, I'm afraid the cat's out of the bag now (at least for our oldest). I think that very well may have been his unconscious motive. No one's that tired.
Any thoughts on the talk? Seriously, I'm so angry right now I can't imagine taking him back if he crawled on his belly. In that letter I almost wrote something about good luck finding a soul mate who's okay with leaving a family who loves you, but then I thought, whoa, what about me? Am I okay with that?
I'm sorry puddle. The thing to realize is that our WAS is going to continue to hurt us. That's the whole point of no expectations. well, I guess we could expect them to continually hurt us, but I don't think that would be the right thing to do either...it would give us the wrong perception of our S, or who we know our S was.
Totally use this site to get out all of your anger. Definitely write your letters on here, it can help you let it go. You definitely don't want to give him this letter and I know you know that.
I know as a mother you cannot understand how in the world he can be treating his children like this. I used the kids so much in the beginning-b4 DB- telling him how can he do this to them and all that stuff you mentioned. But unfortunately, they just don't get it. They truly are in a whole different world, a fog, a pit, whatever, and it's going to take a long time before they can figure out how to get out. The only thing they can see is themselves, and they can't see how it's affecting everyone else.
Like so many others, relationships have been ruined (not all permanently), R's with g-parents, parents, friends, who knows who, because the WAS is so consumed with themselves. I think part of it is that they have guilt and so they try to hide. Sin hates the light. They focus on blaming others so they can have less guilt. However, they are still hurting too.
While my H was acting like a jerk, I remember my s9 was really sick (he had 2 surgeries prior within a year) and my H text me while at work, asking how he was. I said "fine, just wait till you can't be there for him when he's really sick" ya, not a good thing to say. but that was all out of anger and pre-DB.
That same hour I talked to a friend of mine, a strong christian, and she asked me what my vision was. I said for my H to come back to us as a husband and father. She said, "then your going to bite your tongue and your going to be the best wife that you can be....you tell him that he is a good father". I was like are you kidding?!? me tell him he's a good dad with all the aweful things he's doing? She said, he is being a good dad because he is concerned for his son, asking him how is was. So she did have a point. So I did apologize for my comment and said it was out of anger and that he was a good dad. and WOW was that ever hard to hit the send button. But after I did that, it was like a burden was lifted and it felt good to compliment him. Before long I had found DB and For Women Only, and I started my plan to build up my H. Although very small, he did do good things and I would recognize them. Slowly but surely, he did more and more. It took a lot of time, but now he is a better H, and father than he was before our sitch.
okay, that got really long, but I felt like sharing that with you.
take care tonight, and try to release your anger. have a 48 hour rule where you don't react to anything.
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
H wrote to explain that he'd been at a party when OW began feeling ill (she suffers serious health problems), so he and her sister stayed with her until she fell asleep at 5 am. Then he closed his eyes in his car and next thing he knew it was 7:30.
I didn't take time to think and emailed back, "Here's what I think happened. You chose to stay with OW---who wasn't alone---because you wanted to. You had agreed it's best for the kids that things stay normal, and yet you chose what you wanted over their best interest."
He shot back, "I regret nothing, except falling asleep, blah blah blah." Then I blew it with a sarcastic reply.
Then he wrote, "Your sarcasm notwithstanding, what would you think about going to counseling together? The two of us can't have all the answers ourselves."
Huh?
On a brighter note, I just went back and read some of my own posts on others' strings, and I really need to take my own advice. I let the fact that this was about the kids goad me into lashing out, and while it is partly about the kids, it's also mightily about me. I haven't shown H any anger about what he's doing to me, but it's seeping out re the kids. I've got "But it's about the kids!" and, re OW, he's got, "But it's a serious health issue!" We're neither of us being really honest. I need to get a grip. Feel free to slap me.
We'll have to talk about the counseling thing. I imagine he's thinking better communication, better coparenting, etc, but I guess if it's good counseling, maybe it can't hurt.
What do you think? Can good counseling hurt if one partner has absolutely zero desire to work on the M?
Thanks, ST, for that (very gentle) slap. You're right, of course---he can't see anything but himself right now, not even his children. And me pointing it out to him might make him feel guilty (or not), but even that has to come from him, not me.
And thanks for the reminder about the expectations. I have to expect nothing from him. I was so angry that I wasn't able to appreciate the first thing he wrote, which was that he wanted to tell me what happened last night so that I didn't imagine it was something "more fun" than it was. I can appreciate that tiny spark of sensitivity, but I was so angry with him I didn't just say "Thanks."
48-hour rule. Good thinking.
I feel like I've just had a huge setback vis-a-vis him, and I'm going to have to get back up on that horse. Anyway, thanks again for your thoughts and encouragement.
Puddle - I may not be the person to ask about the counseling. My H gave me the speech on July 10th and he suggested counseling. We went to three sessions (he picked the counselor and arranged the times) and on July 31st, told me that he was just going through the motions of counseling. He has since moved out.
However, my story aside, I would try it. Just from the better communication and better coparenting point of view, I would recommend it. I am scheduling IC for me now, because I have so many questions on how to deal with my children's questions.
At the very least, if you go, you are continuing to try. I can honestly say that I tried with the counseling - I wasn't just going through the motions. When my children ask if I tried - I can be honest...H can't (not that he is into the honesty thing with us nowadays).
I get so discouraged when I read your posts. Who are these men and how did we ever fall in love with them?!?! ST is right - so many people (relationships) are hurt by the MLCer because they are so self focused right now. It is hard to remember that they really are "sick" when talking to them, yet it is what we all must do...
As far as talking to him about staying out all night, why do you want to mention it to him? My H did the same thing. We agreed that we would not tell our girls until mid August, so for 2+ weeks he slept at a friends, a hotel or whatever. He lied to the girls. He could have stayed here - he chose not to. When D13 woke up one night and asked where he was, I said I didn't know (I didn't) but I was sure he was safe. She asked him the next day and he lied. My approach was that this was his story to tell. I can look at my girls and know that I didn't lie to them. Again - he can't do the same. For some reason, I felt that covering for him was against the detaching that I was trying to do. I don't know your whole story and there may be a good reason for not telling your kids....but I just felt that my H had to take responsibility for his actions, and they were his to explain.
I also refused to tell the kids about him moving out. We did it together, but I didn't say the words. He wanted to tell them that WE were unhappy and WE were getting a divorce. I told him that if he said that, he would be corrected in front of the girls. He was not happy with this, but....
I don't know how old your kids are, but kids are bright and know when something is up. I strongly feel that my oldest suspected. I couldn't have gone on much longer in our situation.
Finally, I know the letter was just venting but the sentence "You’re deluded and pathetic, and you’re taking us all down with you" really got me - pathetic is the word that I keep coming back to in this whole situation. Don't let him take you down!!!!!! Hang in there!!! Don't go to his level - it ain't pretty down there!!!!
yikes. ya, I think you know what you did was a bad thing, so that's okay. we all screw up, just as long as we learn from our mistakes. So don't be too hard on yourself. If you want, you can even apologize to your H for not thanking him for telling you what he did. Then let it go and work on the present.
Remember... which do you think would get a better result... Your reaction you gave to your H, or a reaction that said, I appreciate you giving me that information. If you could though, please let me know what your ahead of time how late you will be so the children and I aren't alarmed by your absence.
I know that we want to just bang them on the head, but really, when you come at someone with anger, they will always become defensive and then even their own reality can become construed, because they won't be thinking rationally.
oh, about the MC. It is a good thing that he mentioned it. Definitely not the typical male who wants nothing to do with a IC/MC. Just be careful though. if you decide to do it, really screen your counselor. Look for one who is very for M, and are solution based like Michele. Our society is so focussed on both people needing to want to work on the M, otherwise there's no point, that it could turn against your favor to go if that's how they feel about M. I used to think the same, and so did everyone else that talked to me last year, but after what I went thru, it is SOOOOO NOT TRUE. You CAN save your M by yourself. I did it.
What I would suggest is to go ahead and search for one, and get some recommendations or something and have it narrowed down. Then if H brings it up again you can tell him that you did get a couple names and would he like you to set up an appt.
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
I'm glad I found your thread (although I haven't finished reading through the 1st one yet). Your sitch has a lot of similarities with mine and I completely understand your anger. I have been alternating between feeling sad for the kids and so, so angry that he could do this to us for the last few weeks. It is hard to let the anger go.
Hope all is well. You didn't do an awful thing, just let a little anger slip. Plus, there was a positive in that your H recommended counselling -- maybe it's beginning to dawn on him that what he's doing isn't totally OK. Regardless of his reasoning, not a bad idea.
Hang in there.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
