I have become rather fond of your responses Cemar. They point out to me some of the errors in my own thinking. Please don't see me as weilding a 2x4 but rather as attempting to crank your eyes open a little wider.
MJ- If you want to challenge yourself maybe wear some smoking hot lingerie under something totally dull and don't tell him.
Cemar- You know that part in Deidas book about young girls giving you energy what your talking about is just that. There is a level of eros in all of creation, boy ducks and girl ducks are drawn together somehow even praying mantis are drawn together even if it may be death for one of them.
I am constantly amazed at my ability to see an attractive woman from blocks away before I can make out any details of her, I will have a sense of there being something about her. This level of eros used to feel like a burden and I was actually ashamed of it , now I try and see it as just a little something that makes me happy and a feeling I appreciate.
I can see how you would feel that desire isn't a choice but it maybe how you relate to the desire that is that is the choice. Really listen to what the women here are saying they are speaking about their experience as subjects of their own desires and not as objects.
This is what your really after your wife to be subject of her own desire.
And since this is MJs thread I'll ask a question for both of us to her.
By abandoning wishful or ignorant thinking and gaining true empathy for the various aspects of female desire. By revealing yourself to the extent that she can gain empathy for the various aspects of your desire. By making it clear that you believe she has a choice to make regarding desire. By realizing that you have choices also.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
seeing as how dressing sexy makes you feel, I think it would be a challange for you as well.
Hmmm...be sexy, feel sexual but don't be sexual. Yes, that would certainly be a challenge.
It's funny how little need I have for sexual validation now. I think what it comes down to is that all validation is self-validation because you are the one who sets the value on the validation you get from others.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
It is much, much, much easier to feel validated, and need it less, when someone who has importance in your life... is validating you. You may not need a whole lot of it... but the sprinkling in of it helps keep everything in proper working order.
Now... if this guy were constantly invalidating you, and you were not aware of all of this... that invalidation would begin to affect you. Because you are dating, you can drop the guy, and go find someone else who does validate you.
But when you are in a committed R... you don't have that choice (to go elsewhere). You gave it up.
So you are left with the task of righting the wrongs... and if you are unaware of it, if you don't know the problem... it makes it pretty tough to fix it.
It's easy to say to a married person... 'well, you just need more self-esteem... or.. if you can learn how to not be so sensitive, or ease up on your desires... that would help.'
No. Not really.
STOPPING the invalidation is the trick. And when you are pissed and hurt at one another, that can make it kind of tough.
It is much, much, much easier to feel validated, and need it less, when someone who has importance in your life... is validating you. You may not need a whole lot of it... but the sprinkling in of it helps keep everything in proper working order.
Now... if this guy were constantly invalidating you, and you were not aware of all of this... that invalidation would begin to affect you. Because you are dating, you can drop the guy, and go find someone else who does validate you.
True and not true. What I have found to be true in the course of my dating-in-search-of-sexual-validation adventures over the last several months is that I pretty much get exactly the validation I'm already giving myself mirrored back at me by the men I date. If I was feeling needy for validation it wouldn't matter what the commitment status of my relationship was if my date started acting invalidating and I was in clingy pursuer mode I would cling harder in search of validation. If I was in brutal avoider mode I might tend more towards dating other men and thinking not so nice thoughts about the invalidater in order to buck up my ego. I would say that NG throws me a mix of validating and invalidating stuff and amazingly it pretty much corresponds exactly with how I feel about myself. For instance, high on the invalidating behavior would be telling me he is going to call me "very soon", not calling me very soon and then telling me which famous person he was hanging with instead of me. Which corresponds exactly with my self-invalidating thoughts along the lines of "I'm not cool enough to be dating him and I am a pathetic 7th grade groupie-like monkey girl." High on the validating behavior would be a bit of romanto-erotic behavior which I have put in my memory scrapbook on a page covered with gold stars which exactly corresponds with my self-validating thoughts along the lines of " I am a sexually confident woman with a seriously hot *ss." I think when you go shopping at the validation store you always get exactly what you're looking for and are prepared to pay for in the proper currency. I think figuring out what the proper currency might be is the hardest part, especially when you're dealing with aliens from another gender.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Yep. The question is... what do they do with that self awareness. Most people use limited self awareness to strengthen their - 'Thats what I want' entitlement- rather then actually assisting there SO up. The funny thing about self aware people is that they are JUST as subject to biology as everyone else. They just rationalize it better. It doesnt matter how well you understand, we are still beholden to it. Understanding it in infintesimal detail, even obtaining mastery of your portion, doesnt make you happy/ier.
It only matters -what you do. If you do 'The right thing' a person can find happiness, from self approval, courage, pride. maybe even serenity, and tranquility. If a person doesnt, you can only hide or try to mask the depression. Karma is a bit#h. But a fair b#tch.
I agree but you are ignoring what I believe to be the biggest problem which is being wise enough to know what the "right thing" to do might be. For instance, I had to think really hard to figure out what the "right thing" to do was when my S18 wanted me to bail him out of a difficulty recently. My reflexive reaction to the phrase "Do the right thing." would be to operate from lioness mode but I wonder if that's always the right thing to do - lol. My reflexive reaction to anything involving my children is to operate from cow mode. However, I know I have the tendency to overdo cow so (SELF-AWARENESS)...Basically my choice boiled down to is he a man or is he my baby boy? Anyway, my response to him started out "I'm broke and you're 6'3" so.." (Bunny /Lioness) Then I sat on the cow for several hours until my son did a couple mature things. Then I cut his hair and made him some food. - lol. It worked out wonderfully and now my son is completely self-supporting and his lifestyle is definitely on the upswing. My point being that there are plenty of people who would have advised me that it was "wrong" to tell my kid that I was broke or that it might be "right" to lend financial support to an 18 year old etc. Clearly there are some things we all know are wrong but there's a lot of white noise and gray mush in our relationships and in our heads and hearts and it's hard to know how best to take care of ourselves and others.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
True and not true. What I have found to be true in the course of my dating-in-search-of-sexual-validation
You kind of proved my point, right there. You didn't find sexual-validation while married. You had to get out of your M and date to do it. And I am not saying that sexual validation was the reason your M ended... I'm just saying... you've been dating.
People who are IN their marriage don't have that option (well, technically).
You get to decide when NG's validating and invalidating play a role in whether you continue on with him or not... or even IF those things have anything to do with you staying or not. The fact that you HAVE A CHOICE AT ALL is what is empowering (I think, anyway).
How much of a choice did you feel you had in your M? How many people who are still in their M's feel they have a choice? Of the M's that HAVE improved on this board, how many got to that point out of choice?
That's my point, is all.
We all have a choice to manage our emotions. We all have a choice on whether we validate or invalidate our partners. We all have a choice when our partners validate or invalidate us.
When you don't know you have the choice, or if you cannot own your own power... you feel like you don't have a choice.
This stuff is making my head spin I started reading EQ (first 2 chapters), and while I see what he's saying I'm getting overwhelmed by it all.
Quote:
You get to decide when NG's validating and invalidating play a role in whether you continue on with him or not... or even IF those things have anything to do with you staying or not. The fact that you HAVE A CHOICE AT ALL is what is empowering (I think, anyway).
This is a bit of a stumbling block for me. If you are someone married and doing what they can to stay that way. If you are not getting your sexual validation from your partner, the choices you have all go against something in your make-up, so it is a matter of choosing the path that makes you least unhappy. I suppose this is where figuring out exactly what makes you happy and to what degree is necessary before you can map out a course? Help me out here, because I am getting hung up on this.
As to being happy-go-lucky, I am finding that is hard to maintain. I got turned down again last night and this morning. Handled it OK and cheerfully, but am having a hard time reconciling the feelings, and am feeling like I am stuffing the feelings rather than letting them flow out. Last night after she was making it very obvious that she was not interested, I pulled back, took stock of what I was feeling, which was mainly frustration, and just told her matter the factly that I was feeling frustrated and what had sparked that feeling. She didn't really want to discuss it, kind of shrugged it off which was a little hurtful in itself.
I started reading EQ (first 2 chapters), and while I see what he's saying I'm getting overwhelmed by it all.