Thanks for the heads-up. The belly-dancing sounds more fun, anyway ;0)
I wish I could understand what my heart might be sensing to keep hope--is there something really there, as intuition tells me? Or is it all wishful thinking?
IC says that we have to believe what he is saying, using his words, right now. The message, and how he has treated me as of late, all add up to him really being done. I have to work from there as the reality of things. But she did say that we can't predict if he will always be in that place. I want to push for answers (I guess because I am so tired), but she warned that will only lead to the place that I am certain I don't want to go.
Only time and space, now. Frustrating.
I mentioned that he had amost always accepted my influence in our R before, which makes it even more frustrating, now. She said that she did see that dynamic, that it wasn't necessarily healthy (I agree), and that we would explore that later in C. We both agreed that it is hard to see yourself doing that when the other person never complains that it is a problem, as were the other issues that came up--he kept it a secret, to himself, and just let resentment build.
I will have to address that, for both any future with H, as well as all of my other Rs.
There are no more answers to push for right now. You GOT the answers, you just didn't like them (and I don't blame you, but pushing for the same answers again isn't going to get you different results).
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
"It took him only about a month to decide that he was really done with us "
Donna, FWIW, this is false. He simply went through it all earlier and in private. He just got a headstart in terms of letting go. You didn't start leaving the R at the same time. That is why things look strangely easy for him now. They will be easier for you too in time.
OT, he said he was trying from Nov--Feb. Was he, really? Or was it already too late?
Nikki--You are so right. I don't like the answer. I really don't want to accept that he is gone, never coming home.
I think I have to start looking at this like a death. We don't get to choose when that happens in our lives, either. There is no way to control it.
But this is so much harder, as there is the illusion that we can influence what happens, we can change the fate. I don't think that was possible in my case, as H was too far gone before I even knew what was happening.
I dreamt that I went to the pond near my house and had a ceremony, pushing away a photo of us, some of my poetry about our love, the first rose he gave me, away on a small paper boat, out into the water, after setting it alight. I stood on the shore, watching it burn and settle slowly down into the darkness.
I wish I could understand what my heart might be sensing to keep hope--is there something really there, as intuition tells me? Or is it all wishful thinking?
Any ideas? I want to make it stop; it just hurts so much. IC said that it's not a switch to turn on and off, that time will allow me to let go. What am I holding onto?
Maybe he was trying, but he was involved with and EA/PA long before that. You know that.
I see no reason to think H will return. Regardless, at this point, it is time for you to be OK on your own.
I think you are holding onto for the reasons your C suggested -- enmeshment. He is your parent. You are afraid of what it means about you if you accept his leaving. I actually don't think it has a whole lot to do with him right now. When you are feeling better, you recognize the problems in your R with him and how it was not a good R for you.
At court, you did the drama, gave the judge the poignant "hope" line, rehashed the whole business with H, and you got back to this point which is somehow comforting to you.
It is at least no doubt familiar. You know how to live this way because of how you grew up. The stuff with your mother is not resolved. You are recreating it because you know it. You know that and how to have another parent. You need to focus on learning to be an adult who is not defined by what a good parent or bad parent feels about them and how that parent treats them.
You don't need a parent right now. You learned that in FL.
But, you let the familiar pull of the poor child in need of protection suck you in. Give that child-Donna the love and protection she needs YOURSELF.
Quite literally. Imagine yourself small, vulnerable, emotionally abandoned, feeling like crap. Talk to her OUT LOUD. Give her mental hugs and hug the dog. Comfort her yourself. You can do it for your own kids. You can do it for the kid you still have inside you.
Short answer: you are holding onto the pain from your childhood because it is familiar
To feel better: give that child the love and protection she deserves. You are a loving, caring adult, you have the power to give that to her.
Look at your actions, not your words. The actions you are taking are ones that you will know will increase the likelihood of D. So, you are acting so as to increasing the likelihood of D without also having to confront yourself and admit that is what you want. You get the D that you are --through your own actions-- effectively pursuing and you get to stay in your childhood comfort zone.
Now, if you took different actions... If you let go, took the actions to stay in the adult-growing-independent-GALing mode, then you would act to increase the chance of a decent R with H (whatever that might be), reduce the chance of D (insofar as that is in your control, which I don't think is very much), and you would be growing past the childhood comfort zone which in your case is a pretty tough place to be, not very comfortable at all in fact.
So, through your actions, it appears that you want a D but want to get it in a way that does not require you to admit that.
If that is the story, then some of it is pride, you want to hold onto being right, and some of it is the childhood stuff.
Take care of yourself Donna -- all parts of yourself. You can love you better than anyone else.
Maybe he was trying, but he was involved with and EA/PA long before that. You know that.
I see no reason to think H will return. Regardless, at this point, it is time for you to be OK on your own.
I think you are holding onto for the reasons your C suggested -- enmeshment. He is your parent. You are afraid of what it means about you if you accept his leaving. I actually don't think it has a whole lot to do with him right now. When you are feeling better, you recognize the problems in your R with him and how it was not a good R for you.
At court, you did the drama, gave the judge the poignant "hope" line, rehashed the whole business with H, and you got back to this point which is somehow comforting to you.
It is at least no doubt familiar. You know how to live this way because of how you grew up. The stuff with your mother is not resolved. You are recreating it because you know it. You know that and how to have another parent. You need to focus on learning to be an adult who is not defined by what a good parent or bad parent feels about them and how that parent treats them.
This spoke to me much more than the second scenario--I really, REALLY don't want to loose him! There was no Aha in the idea that I want a D, secretly. It is the simple disbelief that any of this is happening at all that makes it even harder. I did think it was a good R for me--nothing is perfect, but I was happy. I loved (love) him.
But the parenting thing...I grew up pretty well-adjusted for someone who had to take care of herself the majority of the time, and then help raise a sister. I actually had a relatively happy childhood, especially after I reached junior high and was able to effect changes for myself more easily (volunteering, allowed to walk where I wanted to go, more friends, etc.).
But H promised to always take care of me. I think there were some issues where I pushed him into more of a parenting role, such as money (I like to buy what I want, and would put him in the position of having to say no). But the housework / neglecting thing that he felt--I honestly didn't see the clutter; not on my radar. Not in my whole life. But that is something that he continually points to as one of the driving forces, here. He would come home, and I would be reading a magazine or working on the computer while there were dishes to do in the sink, or vacuuming to be done. (Not everyday, like he remembers, but sometimes). Don't get me wrong, it was never gross--no sticky messes anywhere. I pile papers, but usually confine that to one surface, such as the kitchen table or my desk. He would sometimes come in and start to clean something, I would realize what he was doing and jump up to take it from him--I never asked him to do those things! But of course, it was always too late, and he would say shortly, "Forget it--I got it." I would then go into another part of the house that might need to be straightened or cleaned--I never meant for him to feel like he had to do those things. I just worked on a different time schedule than he had in mind.
Without talking to me about it, he interpreted these things as me not caring about him, not thinking about him. He felt he HAD to do stuff or it wouldn't get done. I never saw the depth of all of this--it was surface BS to me, just boring housework. I demonstrated my love for him through hugs and touch, talking, caring about his day, caring about his health...
OK, that just digressed into what brought us here again. Is it linked to the Adult-Child thing? It might be. But I do feel like I am losing so much in loosing him...I love him, for everything that he has ever been to me, with me.
So, is this the real problem that he developed in our R? He grew tired of having to care for me, that I wasn't a "grown-up?" I did take on so much responsibility, just different roles. Most of the child-rearing, volunteer and school issues. All of the paperwork and taxes. All of the research and reading. All of the contacts with family and friends (set up vacations, send cards, buy gifts, etc.) I thought that we shared the housechores as partners; whoever was free could lend a hand and pitch in. I think that he took on more than his share, though. And I let him. I shoulnd't have done that.
Anyway, with all that behind us and me not having a time machine, I have addressed all of those concerns. I take care of everything now, even before he moved out, and now out of necessity.
He has said he has seen the changes but his feelings have not come back. And he is sure that they won't.
I am a pretty intelligent person. I know that the desperation is not good--he has even SAID it! Yet, I think I react out of that child-place... So, I have to avoid him altogether. No talking, no email, stand far away when he has to exchange kids. Then, I can hold it together. It is getting better when I am not in contact with him (not as many outbursts when I am not exposed to him).
It makes me completely understand my D's reactions each time she comes home and is a mess... he has asked me to have her call him when she acts out like that, but I need to deal with it here, myself, not through him over the phone. He wants to hear the anguish in her voice (why?), then blames me for her being sad at all, because I have cried in front of them (not hysterics, but they have seen it from time to time). He wants me to be stronger, react stronger. He says that they will react to how we handle things; if we are strong, they will be happy.
It pisses him off when I cry in front of him; I try so hard not to.
So, guys, what do I do? Other than no-contact? IC says I will let go with time and no-contact. Is there anything else I need to do right now? I am back at work, getting into the swing of things, went to my girl scout parent meeting tonight, spoke with bff...GALing.
I just went back and re-read all of that. Strength. He has said he wants me to be stronger. He resents that I leaned on his parents when I was trying to hold onto my grip to the planet. And he thinks my crying is weak, and doesn't want me doing it in front of the kids at all.
Will I have enough time to develop that strength that I can be around him, even if acting as-if at first? Or is it all too late, anyway? And what else can I do to cultivate that strength?
I know that I let myself cry--I think it is ok to cry when you are feeling sad. But it is the weakness behind it...I was never like this before. I was confident and happy. I have to find that on my own again...
What should you do? You should stop buying into all his horsesh@t! He lost love for you and found it for CW because there were dishes in the sink? The rug could use a vacuuming? (They never actually need it, you know.) Horsefeathers!! He's just blaming you and you take it all to heart.
Repeat after me: H takes no responsibility for his actions in life. H takes no responsibility for his actions in live.....keep going. Do it until you can say it in your sleep. Because that is the truth about your relationship with H.
Yes, you are in pain. Yes, it is a death and you have to grieve. This cannot be swept under the rug or vacuumed away as H would like. This really is a mess. This is his mess that he left in your house for you to clean up. And it is NOT your fault. He stole kisses with her. He found time to be alone. He dropped his drawers and saw stars. NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!!
This is the reason bff and MIL are frustrated with me. Even IC has made note that I seem to gloss over the fact that he is f*cking the woman across the street from me.
He is not even my friend anymore. He believes all of the BS that she sells, even after knowing me for 21 years--he chooses to believe her. He has forgotten...
Again, I remember the ghost...bff says she doesn't even like him anymore, that she sees him more and more in the same light as CW...maybe I dump so much on CW because of what it would mean to hate him, really accept that his recent choices are not from some alien possession, but of the man who he has become.
Is he really lost? Or just changed?
Why am I holding onto a man who has done all of these things to me, my children, his own parents, etc? Again, it is the disbelief about all that has happened--it is so foreign from who I knew.
He told me Mon that I must not know him, never knew him at all, to think I had to make him keep his word legally (instead of trusting him) with the payments.
How do these two different people live in the same body?
