Nomopo's Thread - Is something happening to me?

[Nomopo]

Wow. I can hardly believe how little I have posted in the last 10 days. Feels pretty darn good, by the way. Maybe it is part of the detaching and letting go. Trying not to obsess about my sitch all the time. Anyway, back to catching up on some of your posts from the last 10 days

Hi Charlie!

However as time went on I started to love my wife more and want her for her not just to save the M, I still feel this way but as I've posted on Puddles thread think you've got a better handle on this and it seems the right way to go.

I would say after the "real bomb" hit in January, and after discovering the EA in February, through the first few months of DB, as I looked hard at myself and what happened in our R, I realized more and more how much I cared for my W and whi I loved her so much. I think all of that is still there to be seized and capitalized on, but over the past few weeks (maybe longer?), I have come to realize how lost/sick my W is in many ways, and I am disappointed in her, and all of this has helped me to let go and detach, which I think is an excellent thing.

Hi there bar! Your thread must have locked because I stopped getting email notices of posts on your sitch. I'll find you later.

I've decided that goodbye does not have to mean forever, although I've been pretty much convinced of it up till now.

I guess it doesn't have to mean forever, but I am not holding onto that. I'm trying to focus on me (mainly) and my kids as much as I can, and I am trying to GAL and move forward with my life. The hardest part for me right now is I am restricted by these "agreements" we reached regarding our S (namely, that we will wear our rings, not date, not tell people we are S'd, and not split finances). I am considering asking W to revisit these with me.

Now I just feel there's no point. H is not going to budge from his position that the M is over, he is not going to work on the M. So, game over.

I think you are missing the boat a little here. Don't focus too much on holding out hope, but don't tell yourself there's no hope either. I guess the point is, don't think about those things (whether there is hope, whether H will work on the M, etc.) any more than you have to. Instead, focus on bar, and what bar can do to be happy and live her life to the fullest.

Hi there Kat!!!

Since your revelation seemed to surprise her and she said that she has to process all of this, she may realize that she is not as done as she thought she was.

Could be. I'll be interested to see where things stand around October 1st. Until then, I am trying to detach from W (lovingly - that is super hard for me cause I do feel resentment, anger, bitterness when I let myself) and focus on me and my kids!

This is great timing for you and the kids to head out of town for some fun. Give W lots of time and space to process, while you and the kids are at a great picnic!

Agreed.

Hey there Nick!!!

It took a lot of courage to say what you did, and I think it is really giving W a lot to process now.

It was a little scary, but felt very right.

The latter I think is very important, right now. She has been holding the reigns for some time now, and this shows her that time is NOT on her side anymore. She will have to weigh her options more heavily now in order to make a decision.

In a few weeks (around Oct. 1), if nothing changes my mind, I will probably push more towards moving on by revisiting those agreements about S (mainly, not seeing other people, wearing rings, keeping the S a secret, separating finances). I am tiring of limbo land, and am feeling ready to move on with my life (with or without W).

What makes what you said okay DB-wise is that you are getting to (or are at) a place where you are ready to cut bait with her. This isn't a manipulative technique, though it kind of plays that role. This is reality, and you are ready to move on if she decides that she doesn't want to reinvest in YOU and the M.

Bingo!

I'm hoping she will, though (and I know you are too)

Yes, this is still true, but I am much less focused on it than I have been in a long time.

Hi delia!!! I've missed you. I always appreciate your posts on my thread.

Yes, I think she was blown away.

Surprised for sure, if not blown away.

And I think you will just have to see where she lands.

Yep. I'm ready either way.

You couldn't have said it better about the children. You couldn't have said anything better.

Don't remember what I said about the children right now. Guess I need to go review my own post.

And there could have been no mistaking what you said as a "ploy".

I think/hope so. W had an IC session with our JC this morning (I think), and if so I am sure C reinforced this as real if given an opportunity.

And there you have it. Maybe, at some point, the enormous effort was simply too much, without a bit more of an answering response. This, for you, was a true show-stopping moment, a real 180.

Yeah, I think you're right on the money here.

I hope that it brings your wife closer. Somehow I think that it will.

That would be great, but it will be ok the other way too.

There was always something un-real about the separation your W initiated. It was like some Japanese ritual drama. It's not that I want anyone to be hurt--but at some point your wife has just got to butt heads with reality (if reality is a goat, or the devil!) and realize what she may lose.

Yes, and this is why I am seriously considering "re-visiting" those "agreements" we have in place about our S.

I would like to see her wooing you! I wonder what she will do, and I hope she does the right thing, and shows again the traits that made you fall in love with her.

Now that would be something!

Hello Puddle! Thanks for the kind words and support.

Ok. Going to take a quick break, and then back for more. Man, I really fell far behind.

Nomo

[Nomopo]

Hello WC - I've been following your thread too, just not much (if any) posting.

My advice (for what it's worth): No matter how you feel, default to the "moving on" attitude in any contact with W until she really steps up and makes it clear that she has finally realized what a catch you are.

Until then, enjoy your kids, life, and the feeling of pride that comes with being the spectacular person that we all know you are.

Now this is fantastic advice, and summarizes exactly what I am trying to do right now. The hardest part for me is moving on/detaching while being "nice" or loving or happy/cheerful/positive/upbeat. In other words, moving on/detaching while acting as if. That is a fine line to walk, but I am still working on it. Thanks for that post!

Hello BH85!

Perhaps you could have done more cheerleading but you have been damn near perfect for three weeks. You are permitted to have a bad day.

I appreciate the support Bro.

Thanks for the support NDDT and dlt1! I appreciate it.

Hi Slowly!!!

Back later, just wanted to bookmark this quick-fire round

I am counting on it.

Hi Sara! How was Cirque de Soleil?

I think your change in feelings is related to the "decision to love". There is just so long that a person will wake up each day and decide to love a person who does not return that love. At some point to protect yourself from further hurt, you decide to no longer love, and move on. Perhaps that is where you are coming to.

Could be. Not sure if protecting myself from further hurt is the motivation (could be in part), but more along the lines of I cannpt control her, she may never come around, I've been working on and focusing on me, and I am going to continue moving forward with my life. As of now, she chose not to be in it, so I am moving forward under those facts. And I am feeling fine with it.

Peter2DB:

I found your post very useful, as I think it captures some of the dynamic between me and my W.

All very funny at the time, but on later reflection I realised.... she's right. I AM afraid of her. Or of her controlling behavior, at least. And I suddenly saw that she is frequently, actively exploiting that fear. One of my confidants said to me she dropped her guard in making that comment and that it opens up a path of understanding and coping for me.

Fact is, she is (consciously or not) continually intimidating me with her comments and asides, and the endless rehearsal of the supposed faults of years.

I think I have spent the vast majority of our R worrying that she might be upset or bent out of shape by something I said or did. I spent a lot of time walking on eggshells, trying not to make her angry. Lots of people in her life have been like this, including her mother and brothers, and some friends. That "giver" side, if you will, has contributed to this mess for sure. Thanks for sharing your experience, as it opened my eyes some more too.

Dustin, this comment was so true:

When you finally let go of the fear of doing/saying something that'll make them mad, you will feel liberated. It was only when I finally refused to be a doormat that I realized that life will go on without her.

Thanks for sharing.

Hello SDFoundgirl, and thanks for stopping by. Would love to have your input whenever you have the time.

It was when *I* was fully ready to move on, to let H go, that he started to recommit. Literally...the weekend I was contemplating moving on in the form of dating a friend who could have been much more, H stepped it up.

As long as you are focused on YOU and what YOU want and acting on those things instead of fear or W or whatever, there are no wrong actions. We must be true to ourselves in the end.

That is SO POWERFUL, and I believe so right!

Gotta come up for air. Back to respond to more of your posts later!

Nomo

[Heimlich]

Nomo,

Great to see you back. Have missed the marathon posts

Never wanted to tell you this, but I'm glad you took a break. Toward the end, I think you were wearing yourself too thin by focusing so much on the interaction between you and your W and less on you (if that makes any sense).

Big changes on my end as well. You know what, detachment, while scary, ain't all bad. Depending on the day, I'm 95 to 98% there.

BD

[Not Much Left]

Hey Nomo

[new_attitude]

Hi Nomo! I'm glad you're feeling so well these days!

The hardest part for me right now is I am restricted by these "agreements" we reached regarding our S (namely, that we will wear our rings, not date, not tell people we are S'd, and not split finances). I am considering asking W to revisit these with me.

Maybe I'm just being nosy, but which of these these things do you want to change? Are you hoping to initiate that discussion for the sole purpose of changing those agreements or are you hoping that it will jolt her into realizing that you're truly detaching from her? Maybe both?

I am trying to detach from W (lovingly - that is super hard for me cause I do feel resentment, anger, bitterness when I let myself) and focus on me and my kids!

This is what I need help with. How do you go from being resentful, angry and bitter to being in a position to lovingly detach? What do you tell yourself at those times when you're feeling especially resentful and you need to interact with your w?

[Reincarnated]

Now me, I can't hold ONTO the damn anger! That would be useful to me right now, but it especially dissapates whenever I am near / talking to H. In an instant! I know that I have displaced a lot on CW, but I really do hate her. And hate is in the strongest terms, here.

So, instead he has gotten the pathetic beggar. Not a good place to be, either. Hope has become almost poison to my self-health. I am trying to let go from sheer will (will need to fake it to make it), and by limiting any and all contact for now. I know what I keep doing wrong, yet find myself there way too often. IC and I are trying to figure out why, and how to prevent it (again, he can't see me cry if he can't see me). The rumors of my moving on will have to be enough for now.

Nomo--
I am glad that you got the break / rest / time with the kids. Hope the school year is good with them.

Oh, a note about "going public": See if you can get ahold of the book, Uncoupling. There may actually be benefits to the fact that your W is unwilling to make this public knowledge...it shows that she hasn't yet chosen to change her ID from that of a partner in a marriage to a single person.

[Willing NJ H]

Well NOMO, glad to see your back, and even happier that you took a break, you needed it. Thanks for checking on me, kinda weird that the first day you checked on me in a hiwle is the first day i've had in a while, perfect timing for your advice. (Thanks)

Don't have much new to say about your sitch, that I haven't said already. I look forward to your replies for some of these other posts, as I have the same questions.


The one question I do have: We talked a month or so ago about counselros/therapists. You said when I feel i'm ready, we'll talk about how to choose the right kind/a good one. When you have time, i'm ready for the input. I'm farther into detatching than I thought i'd be, and need the support from an unbiased expert. I think it will help me feel better about the process and my decisions. I also think that if she sees me going, i'll find out who she really is now. Thanks bro, good to see your doing well.

[bar]

Hi Nomo!

Thanks for the advice. I must focus on bar. I know it's important I am the strong centred one in this situation, whatever happens. Bit down today. Wasting time wishing OW would drop dead.

Glad you're busy getting on with your life. Best of wishes with that but don't forget about us.
Did you get my email? Probably set it up wrong.

bar xxx

[Nomopo]

Ok. Back to trying to catch up.

Hi (again?) Puddle!

I think one really useful thing for me has been also having had a crush on someone and realizing even then that it had very little to do with that person, but everything to do with what I was missing in my R with DH. This knowledge (and empathy) helps me keep the focus off OW. I don't know why some people come to that conclusion while others see only stars in their eyes.

I haven't experienced this, but it is useful.

Detachment has been the hardest thing for me to understand. I think you can't control it, and you can't understand it until it has happened.

Oh gawd, I hate these hard-to-understand things. I understand what it is, but the how-to-get-there part that isn't about "getting" it drives me nuts. Too much thinking? Probably.

I don't think you can force it, but thinking about your sitch long and hard is part of the process. And the more you deal with it by thinking on it (as opposed to ignoring it), the faster you detach. Just my 2 cents, and this flies in the face of GALing and focusing on you, I think. But GALing and focusing on you helps put things in perspective while you're thinking on it. Weird, huh?

When I think about the list of things there are to work on in my M, then add to it the body blow my trust in and respect for DH has taken, it can be overwhelming.

This kind of thinking is what I believe has helped me step back/detach/think about moving on.

Maybe I can think less over the next few weeks. I'll be curious where things stand by October 1.

I'll be interested to hear how that goes, and your secret if it works!

Well, the sitch and W are by no means out of my mind, but it is pretty clear to me that I am thinking about everything a lot lot less.

Hi Donna! How are you!!

You know that your W is still thinking things through--she is still in counseling, which is a huge thing that I believe that all WASs need. Getting back to time and space seems to be the way to go, and I agree that letting her know about the change in you is important.[/quote}

I think you are probably right. She probably is still thinking things through - just not actively. On counseling, see my journal update later today. Some changes taking place there as W is going to see the JC on her own for a while, and I am not. Yes, my strategy currently is focus on me and kids (exclusively) as much as I can, continue to detach, but be as nice as I genuinely can in the interactions we do have.

[quote=Donna...Found]But this is the risk that we have to take.

On letting go, you are so right. Ewe posted a sitch (poohbear's I think) on my thread, and in that thread there is a post about a sermon on letting go that was very good. Check it out if you haven't.

I can't remember; were you up for a fall leaf-peeping tour of CT sometime in Oct?

Probably not. It's college football season so I have some trips planned.

Hi Sunny, my rock!

It was when *I* was fully ready to move on, to let H go, that he started to recommit

SD tells us what we're coming to learn ourselves.....WAS's take on a "dog like" quality where they sense fear, or that we're not fully letting go, even if it's incredibly subtle.

Following up your last session where your detachment was reveled with a trip away with the kids will give her a chance to imagine herself as the outsider. Someone not included in your life, and the possibility that you may even share it with another women at some point. I think a WAS doesn't do this until the focus gets away from thinking that you're safely on the shelf, if & when they should want you again.

Yes, I need to keep with the detachment, and not initiating contact. Hard in our agreed to form of S, and with the kids, but I will do my best. Of course, that won't be as good as you on this point (your natural strength!).

Keep up the great PMA Nomo, your picnic is attracting a lot of attention.

Trying to on the PMA, and as for the picnic attention, could be but only time will tell.

Hi Sara (we missed La Nouba - next time I hope), dlt1, walking cliche, SuperDad (sorry we missed you in FLA), CVA, Dustin and delia! Thanks for stopping by (again for many of you).

My balance isn't the greatest, so I expect many falls on either side.

This is a great way to put it. I struggle with the balance (walking that fine line) too.

And hi alk24 - don't think we've met before. Welcome to my world.

Hi GD old buddy!!! The break was (is?) good. Trip was great. Will try to journal later on communications with W over the last 10 days.

Hello Just_Me. It's been a while, but I always WELCOME anything you have to say to me. I hope you are well my friend.

You worried that maybe you'd ruin your chances if you truly reached the point of accepting the divorce, moving forward, and detaching completely. And you worried what would occur from the standpoint of your wife if that came out. And that too me says you are still too attached.

I agree. I am not fully detached. Rather, I have been detaching for a few weeks now, and I think the process continues. On a day-to-day basis, I think much much much less about my sitch, about my W (what she is doing, thinking, etc.) and about what I should do vis-a-vis her. But I do think about it at times. I am trying to put the focus on me and my kids, and the focus is more there than it has been at any time since 1/22/07. So, that is progress. But there is no doubt I have not fully detached or even detached as much as I think I need to. But, the thing is, I feel like this is pretty much happening, or at the very least started to happen, on its own, not by my conscious choice. My feelings/focus/etc. just changed or shifted. And I think it is good.

I guess I don't quite understand what you have been doing that is still holding on as opposed to what you fear will be different should you actually let go.

Great question. The main thing is obsessing about my sitch, my W, etc. most (if not all) of the time. This difference is that focusing on me, my kids, what I want/need for me and them, etc. is what is filling my mind more and more these days. Another thing is not trying so damn hard to influence my W. Obsessing about having interactions, making them positive, making them move us towards reconciliation, and gauging her every word and response. There is still some of that to be sure, especially gauging her responses when we do interact. I would like to keep those positive and friendly regardless of what happens. But I don't feel like I am walking on eggshells as much. Make sense?

If you keep having hope your wife will want to try or you keep your life on hold waiting just in case, does that increase your odds of success?

I get the feeling I am missing a very important lesson you are trying to teach me, but I think the answer is yes. Because if I truly detach, then I am leaving her in the past. And when that happens, I will be looking for my next R. (And pretty damn quick, I might add, as it has been a while since I have been intimate with anyone, or even felt affection from anyone.) And then that will decrease our chances or odds of success. Now, I am not looking for my next R because (1) I have not fully detached (but I feel I have moved and I am moving that way) and (2) right now W and I have agreed not to see other people, and I at least am honoring that agreement (despite temptations, I might add).

If your wife doesn't care if you still hold out hope, why does it matter if you do or don't?

I think it only matters in that if I hold out hope (or maybe better said, if I am still attached enough), I don't actively move to the next stage (or R?) of my life. If I am detached fully (or enough?), I start dating, looking, developing Rs.

My questions don't seem clear, but I often wonder what some people mean by "standing" when their spouse isn't even allowing them to do anything. It seems a lot like "standing still".

It is. And it stinks. I believe it is called limbo, especially if your WAS barely communicates with you about things. Somehow I feel like I have missed your point, so I hope you will come back again.

You should let go. You should be forging ahead. Does that mean you will never be back with your wife? No, it just means you accept that there is a good chance it won't happen. But that doesn't mean there is no chance. That decision has always been in your wife's hands whether you let go or hold on for dear life, she will do whatever she feels is best for her.

I agree with all of this, and I am letting go and forging ahead the best I can. It is an ongoing process. Frankly, if we didn't have these "agreements" in place about our S, I believe I would be actively looking to meet people on a daily basis. There is a (big) part of me that is ready for that. That is why I have been debating re-visiting the agreements? Any thoughts on that? (BTW, the one that I think will cause W (and, thus, me perhaps) the most stress is being public/open about our S. I am moving towards re-visiting the agreements, but planned to move slowly and think long and hard on it. I have the idea of a few weeks in my head for some reason (say through September).

Thanks J_M - great stuff. Come back to play some more, please.

Hey NDDT - good to hear from you man. Hope all is well.

Hi Sven. Thanks for keeping tabs on me.

I'll tell you too that I was EXACTLY where you are at - and I was able, as I absorbed, accepted, and even embraced the fact I was getting divorced, to get to a higher place and comfort and acceptance - it was at this point that I realized that I had detached. And it was like taking the air out of the balloon for both my W and myself. The comfort levels increase and we were able to interact far better than ever in our R - strange as that might seem or sound.

This is very valuable stuff. And when I say I am not fully detached, but I feel like I have been and I am continuing to detach, this is what I mean (but you said it better): "I was able, as I absorbed, accepted, and even embraced the fact I was getting divorced, to get to a higher place and comfort and acceptance - it was at this point that I realized that I had detached."

Once you face the fear down and understand that your life will be what YOU make of it and the same for your W (her life what she makes of it), for me I found it was much easier to move on.

This part I really think I have done. Actually, I think I did it a while ago, but over the last few weeks I've added more acceptance that D is what is likely to come to pass.

So keep letting go and know that you will stand head high ready to face your new world.

Thanks, and I do.

Ok, that got me through the end of page 2. Back for more later. Thanks to all of you!!!!

Nomo

[BirdDog]

The hardest part for me is moving on/detaching while being "nice" or loving or happy/cheerful/positive/upbeat. In other words, moving on/detaching while acting as if. That is a fine line to walk, but I am still working on it.

Hey Nomo,

Haven't been on in awhile and wanted to check back on your sitch. In reference to your above quote, I had the exact same problem and discussed it with my IC. I was able to be nice towards W while I saw there was hope for a R, as that hoped died I started to let some of anger out.

The anger was there while I still felt there was hope for a R, but was able to put it aside. He asked me if I could put it aside once again even w/o the hope of an R, that it shouldn't be that much different. I thought about it and answered yes, then I just went it did it. I am now in a completely different place and moving on with my life, at times interacting w/ W still feel tense, but not so much anger. I think as time goes by those tense feelings will disapate as well.

I have even been feeling over the past couple days that she did me a huge favor by ending the R.