Madonna/Whore Part 8 (aka Attachment Therory)

[chromosphere]

(((((Heywyre)))))

What time frame are you thinking about in terms of reformation? What are some specific things he would have to do to be reformed?
Does he know those specific things?

Chrome

[oldtimer]

((((((HW))))))

I'm so sorry. What happened? I thought H signed up for the new IC?

[Heywyre]

Chrome/Oldtimer

Not sure about "time frame" - still in shock at this point and just trying to get through the day. And, wouldn't you know it, we are short-staffed this week and there is an urgent application and file materials that needs to get done ASAP - oh well, something to try and keep my mind on other than my shitty life.

I could set out specific things Chrome but what's the point? We have been down this road so many times and he keeps doing the same friggin things over and over and over. Of course, he has now "vowed" not to do any of them any more but I have heard this drivel spew from his mouth way too many times to even consider he might actually mean it this time

Would I like to salvage this R, of course I would. Do I think there is something that can be done to salvage it? - I would be a millionaire if I knew the answer to that one

[Heywyre]

Ok, so here is where I am having problems dealing with what I should and shouldn't do.

H has "vowed" not to continue on with his inappropriate behaviours (BTDT - so it's all talk to me) HOWEVER, he finally realizes this is the turning point, there is no going back - so that is a BIG step. But, is it too little too late?

He goes to see the new T on Sep 21st but that is another 3 weeks from now - what do I do in the meantime? Do I refrain from any sort of affection whatsoever and if so, what does that prove. If he makes advances of any kind (i.e. a hug/peck on the cheek) do I only "allow" it IF I want to accept/reciprocate? or do I avoid all physical/emotional contact

IF I saw that he was making a REAL effort to turn things around in the next month or two, I would consider reconciliation but it is highly unlikely right now - burned too many times.

How do I determine what to do and not do?? any suggestions oh wise ones?

[oldtimer]

Rather than try to manage H, why not ask yourself what you want?

It sounds to me like you:

1) Don't want to close the door on the until you see if anything happens with H's new IC

2) Want emotional and physical space until you either choose to work on the M again or leave based on what happens in the next 2-3 months.

So, why not just tell H that?

[Heywyre]

I have told him that but IF I am willing to reconcile based on him making some definite changes in his life, how does that get acknowledged if I continue to shun him trying to connect with me physically/emotionally again?

Most of the affection he shows me is no more than I would give to a friend (of which he is) so do I withdraw that too?

I clearly am afraid of being burned again but at the same time I don't want to close the door if he truly knows this is the end of the line and is making a genuine effort to repair the damage

[oldtimer]

Why not be honest and direct?

If something doesn't feel good -- "H, I need physical space right now, you are crossing my boundary."

If something feels good -- "H, it feels good to feel you near me right now."

My point -- why not simply go for respecting your own authentic wishes in any particular instance rather than trying to manage H?

[Heywyre]

I am through managing H - and he knows it. I haven't been cold but it is very platonic

I have full intention of not allowing anything to happen that I am not comfortable with, I just don't want to send out the wrong signals that everything is hunkie-dorey when its not

So, what you are saying is: If it is alright with me, I should tell him that and allow that boundary to be crossed?

[Cobra]

Heywire,

What are your plans under the two paths? If he straightens up, then where do you go? That’s Plan A – a reconciliation of the marriage. If he doesn’t, then what do you do? That’s Plan B – divorce (or whatever you are planning). Play the best of both.

For now, treat him and the M as if Plan A is in effect. Give the benefit of the doubt. But tell him that you are also going ahead in planning and preparing for Plan B as a contingency backup, but you “vow” not to go down that road unless he does not keep his “vows.” You will need to lay out exactly what the critical triggers will be to cause you to implement Plan B so he knows exactly what is expected of him and exactly where he "fails." But this way he can bear some of the responsibility for which path you take. Let him control the destiny of the M, not you.

[Heywyre]

Right - I need to continue on like I am "married" but these "triggers" have been laid out to him on many other occasions. Although I do say he seems to be VERY concerned this time around

He even said "I don't know why I allowed it to get to this point but sometimes you have to hit the bottom before you can come back up" - he knows he is at the bottom and there might not be a way back up.

He knows this is all up to him, I have removed myself of the responsibility totally. He asked me what I wanted to do and I said, "no, this is YOUR choice, YOU are the one that will decide the destiny of our M by your actions"

So, IF it is comfortable for me, I need to continue on with regular marriage activities, affection etc.?