To compare her to anyone else, to compare your M to any other... I personally think is a fruitless endeavor. It keeps you from seeing what is there, instead of what you WANT to be there. Kwis?
Yeah, I hear you, but it also keeps me somewhat sane by focusing on how things should be, and that it is not all me. Sort of like fixing your gaze on the horizon when on a pitching boat at sea to help prevent sea sickness from looking too closely at everything immediately around you.
I believe that successful Rs are not built on 'love,' per se, and meeting each other's needs. I believe successful Rs are based on proficient and effective problem-solving.
I agree in part. I think those things you mention are prerequisites for the love to be expressed.
Yes, my xH is a flawed man... just as I am flawed woman. But his flaws or state of health didn't make MY life harder. Our inability to effectively problem solve together was the fatal part.
It’s all rolled together. Without his flaws (and yours), you would not have such a need to problem solve.
Nod. I get this. I'm just saying, as an observation, not a criticism... that a lot of what you're saying sounds like your feelings of happiness and contentment, are, and will always be, based on the your wife's (or some other S.O) actions/behaviors... is that accurate?
In large part yes, and especially where it concerns some who seems to be so lacking in relationship skills. IMO I don’t think I am dealing with a wife who falls somewhere in the “normal” distribution of the bell curve as it relates to relationship skills (others here are probably in the same situation too). I think my W is further into the outliers, in the tails of the bell curve. If I could just plop her back into the “normal” range, even to one edge of that range, problem solving abilities may be able to overcome so many of our problems.
No, that's not how it is with him. Not at all. I do and have felt all kinds of emotions with him. How we operate together is independent of those emotions. What you are referring to is cycle of behavior I am determined NOT to repeat... pursuing pleasure, avoiding pain... and having those associated emotions determine my thinking and actions.
OK, but implicit in your answer is the assumption that if things do not work out, you simply move on. No need to stress over things, just go find someone else. You know a committed relationship does not have such a low threshold for jumping from one relationship to another. If it did, I doubt many of us would feel the tug of emotion as we do.
….When I stay in that 'state,' I am a better problem-solver. So the act of disagreeing is no longer a 'painful thing to avoid,' no more than 'agreeing' with him provides 'he's the ONE' feelings.
Yep. But in your relationship, the consequence of not agreeing is low. Maybe you are hurt for a week or so, but you get over it. You find a new bf and the chemical rush obliterates all those hurts. Also, there is little consequence for your kids if you two split.
I'm doing this with my bf, I CAN do it with my xH, and it is something I am practicing with everyone in my life because it is how **I** want to be. Not saying anyone else SHOULD be this way.
I hear you. I do think that if you were back together with your ex, you could do this…. for a while. But if you have to keep it up for a long period of time, you won’t be able to stop feeling more and more defensive, at least wondering when you will have to go into your differentiation mode…. again. Plus, time has a way or slowly eroding hope and optimism, doesn’t it?
It seems to me that you don't think you have the same ability to do this with your wife.
Oh, I can and have done this with my wife. But it only results in a parallel life setting.
If you don't want to, or don't agree with it, that's cool. I was just trying to explain to you a method I've learned and have been implementing recently that has made a huge different in my life... that MIGHT work for you... that's all. It doesn't really have to do with whether I'm married or not.
The difference I see with your new life and my wife is that your bf is choosing to actively engage you. When you were mad at him some time back over golfing, HE is the one who apologized and asked you to play with him again. What if he reacted differently? What if he just said fine, we don’t need to ever golf together, essentially withdrawing back into his cave. No hard feelings, no arguments, no resentment. But then another situation or activity arose that you two decided to do independently. Build up several more of these and what do you have left? Still no hurt feelings, no resentment, but a severely weakened bond.
IMO, the fact that my W is an avoider and seems to find zero comfort in an emotional bond is what makes my marriage so difficult. It shuts off all possibility of compromise or negotiation. When only one person is trying to reach out, there are only three outcomes that I can see:
1) Settle for an EC that is comfortable for my W, but is less than what I want. Any more will cause her to withdraw.
2) Push to engage and work on the M. This means I am the one doing all the reaching, and it starts to look like I am the one who is codependent and needy, further throwing the relationship off balance and exacerbating the problems and responses.
3) Do not pursue. The lack of interaction will cause the relationship to die of natural apathy.
The advice given by DB and all other approaches is to go with 3) since 1) and 2) are obviously doomed to failure. But 3) requires the other person to re-engage. Just as Choc is finding out, his wife is really not wanting to withdraw and once the OM reaches a certain level of frustration, she runs back to the next best source of engagement, or enmeshment. But if she does not want any engagement but instead stays in her cave, where do you go?
So, sorry if I sounded judgmental in any of my posts here to you.
