BTW, I changed my display name to LuckyMe! to emphasize to myself the wonder of finding all this stuff out before it got any further. Who knows WHO i'd be if this never stopped!
I'll be happy to help catch you whenever you need it, girl.
LM
Lucky me, I could have been someone else FOREVER! Whew, that was close!
I am so empathetic to your concerns with S17. I have S14, whom I love dearly. He has just started high school. And every now and then, he will let me philosophize with him. Brave lad, eh?
So. We were talking about... stuff. Everything he told me about his. h.s. experience today was negative. So I asked him why. I don't think he realized how negative he was being.
So...we kind of went that whole 'choice' route... and eventually he just lost patience. Can you imagine? So I said to him... okay... I understand you are done with my philosophizing, but you seem mad/agitated at me. Am I correct?
Yes.
Why.
I guess because... the way I do things is easy. What you are telling me is hard.
Me: "Really."
Him: "Yeah."
Me: "So you LIKE feeling pissed off and agitated?"
Him: "No, not really."
Me: "Oh. Okay. So, you just aren't willing, at this point, to admit you admit have a choice?"
Him: "Yes."
Me: "Why?"
Him: "Because you are hurting my head, and I don't want to deal with it right now."
Me: "Okay. But that is still YOUR problem, isn't it?"
Him: "WHERE did you learn this stuff?"
Me: "You didn't answer my question."
Him: "Yeah, it's my problem. Like I don't have enough already."
Me: "LOL. Before you get to 18, I can help you carry your problems. You just have to admit to them, and be willing to tell me about them."
Him: "No, I'm just going to be mad."
Me: "You may feel mad at first. That doesn't mean we can't solve your problem."
How'd ya like an extra son for a couple years Actually, S17 is a good kid, Eagle scout, top 10% of his class in a tough catholic (all boys) hs, doesn't drink or do drugs (actually complains to us about how prevalent it is and that he is somewhat an outcast because he won't participate in the drinking/drugging), etc. He frustrates us because he lacks initiative and direction (we kept a firm foot on his behind by holding his driver's license over his head to finish up his Eagle requirements), and because he has an entitled attitude, well about everything. Right now his response to everything he doesn't like is either "that's retarded", "that's gay", or "that's stupid". These are things like curfews, limits on telephone time, restrictions on using the car (not his car), and paying his bills, and requiring a chaperone when he goes out with his GF (only because MrsGGB caught them Fcking on the front lawn in the middle of the afternoon two weeks ago...could just as easily been one of the kids, or our neighbor's 3yo that came across them). He's also gotten negative on his HS experience. This is a HS he loved until last winter. We think it changed with this GF, as she's gone on how she hates her school (all girls, sister school to S17's school) since we first met her. Anyway, comparatively speaking, I guess we don't have it so bad...but.
And you can throw this back at me in a few years.... he is testing every boundary you have... to make sure they are THERE. He needs it. He wants it. No matter how much he 'seems' to rebel against it. He wants YOUR attention. Right NOW. And the way he gets it is by testing you. Slippery mfers, aren't they?
Hmmmm.....I agree wholeheartedly that he wants your attention GGB. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he is reacting to the state of your marriage. I'm not sure what type of response Corri has in mind, but I think this is is the time when you should try to do things with your son, just you and him, no one else. Make a short weekend trip, doing something he likes, something a little daring for you, something that validates his sense of rebelliousness but shows him how to do that in a controlled and safe manner.
My son is only 10. He gets an attitude at times, but I think it comes from the marriage and the occasional arguing. W is convinced that he is learning from me how to be disrespectful to women. It think she is teaching him that lesson all on her own. I can understand his frustration.
My approach is to try to side with his and his feelings, and talk about what he did, why it is wrong, then give him a face-saving way out so he does not feel humiliated. W does the opposite. She wants him to own up to his mistakes and apologize, not just for his actions but his anger and attitude too. All that does is piss him off more (and it really pisses me off when I see her doing it to him).
My point is that your son probably wants to bond with you and get some attention. At first he will say it is gay, whatever, so chose something really special. In fact choose something that your wife will not like, something a little daring. That puts the two of you on a "team" as rebels with a cause (or is it without a clue?) Give him a chance to see another side of you, show him the experience you have gained over the years, that a kid of 17 has no way of knowing, that he will HAVE to respect.
This is one of the reason I do TKD with my kids. I am pretty proficient at it, can hang with many of the other teenagers, and none of my kid's friends have parents that can do what I do. Even if my kids don't think I am as good as they are, they hear otherwise from their friends and they do give respect for that.
Anyway, I hope you get my drift. Just sidestep the entire confrontation thing. It doesn't have to come up at all. Spend some one-on-one time with him.
Yeah, I get that. The hard part for me has been getting MrsGGB to not let him slide. Each time she does, it makes the next one that much worse.
Today, I saw a prime example of him appreciating the bounds. We require him to put half of his earnings into a no-touch bank account, and that has to come out of his paycheck before other expenses. Earlier this year, when he first got his job, he had a $700+ cell phone debt to pay off, so we took the phone and he wasn't allowed to get it back until he paid off his debt. MrsGGB told him that he could apply 100% of his paycheck to the debt and then catch up later with the no-touch account. Well, he did that, and got his phone back, with the condition that 75% of his check goes into the no-touch account until he catches up. He missed the last three paychecks, so today we sat him down and asked him for a check for 75% of his last 3 checks. That left him with about $35 before paying his $94 phone bill. He tried to negotiate down the bill (~$65 of it was texting which normally would have been covered under a text plan that got turned off when he switched phones last month). We stood firm and said that it was his bill. We gave him the option of not paying the texting portion, but if that was his choice then we would also turn off texting and block the service on his phone like we did for the other phones. He pissed and moaned about how unfair the set-aside funds were, that we weren't fair about the cell phone, and a litany of other unrelated things. We stood firm, and eventually got the check from him for the set-aside account, and told him that this one time since the phone bill was larger than expected he could keep it until his next paycheck, but that it had to be paid Friday when he gets his check or he loses it until paid. Well, when all was said and done he stomped up to his room, telling us he hated us, the house is a "hellhole" etc. Apparently he cogitated over the whole thing, because when he did emerge, he's been very pleasant and conciliatory. The constant testing is wearing, but it also strengthens my resolve to be firm. I'm hoping that MrsGGB sees that the world didn't end and that S17 didn't hold it against us for maintaining the boundary.
I'm not so sure that your son is the one in need of... comfort, as is your wife. Afterall... he is male... he has the... coding and equipment and expectations that YOU will be male... and therefore, HE will. BRAVO for you holding his feet to the fire. BRAVO, etc., etc. You should have done it way sooner. Sorry. Being Obeective.
Now. Me being Corri, and me putting ME in yoru wife's shoes... I would need ALLL KINDS of REASSURANCE from YOU. Not that what I am feeling is wrong, for I AM a mother, afer all... but that, at 17, he4 needs to learn accountability. That is a FAR DIFFERENT rational than ME protecting MY OFFSPRING. Even I, in my most stupid Corri/mother moment, can understand that he needs to learn accountability. (Snide Remark: After all his FATHER certainly LACKS it). LD mind. Sorry for the interject.
There are times when my X is far harder on the boys than I think worthy. I can point to ALL of HIS FAULTS to prove my case. I could ARGUE in front of a GRAND JURY and WIN my case, I am that confident in my ability to aruge.
That does NOT help my sons. HE is right, by default of TESTOSTERONE ownership. Yes. I get to protect them when they are young. I get to kiss their boo-boos and I get to lay claim to ALL the guilt for what I DIDN'T do. But when they hit puberty.,.,
Dad comes first. That doesn't mean he gets to train them to be insensitive to the female condition. (How would ANY of you think otherwise?) It means... HE has the ability to teach them things I cannot, and will NEVER be able to teach them.... that they have to KNOW. Like GGB is teaching his son. Too bad. Sorry you feel that way. Where's my check?
Female: Awh. Let him be. He's our son. Of COURSE he will pay us back. he LOVES us. GGB: Has nothing to do with love. Show me the MONEY. Now.
Anyone who is reading this can see it immediately. No prob. Put yourself into it, with YOUR child, things change.
So. As a female on my own... I defer MORE to my xH than I EVER did married to him.
That is NOT the fault of M. As so many of you are willing to blame.
It has to do with a HOST of other things,..,. but NOT this.
Cobra... I have no qualms with YOU. I am still thinking...as you are a very brilliant man... and will reduce my argument to zero, when I give it. I want to make sure zero has value. And it does.
Actually, S17 is a good kid, Eagle scout, top 10% of his class in a tough catholic (all boys) hs, doesn't drink or do drugs (actually complains to us about how prevalent it is and that he is somewhat an outcast because he won't participate in the drinking/drugging), etc. He frustrates us because he lacks initiative and direction (we kept a firm foot on his behind by holding his driver's license over his head to finish up his Eagle requirements), and because he has an entitled attitude, well about everything. Right now his response to everything he doesn't like is either "that's retarded", "that's gay", or "that's stupid". These are things like curfews, limits on telephone time, restrictions on using the car (not his car), and paying his bills, and requiring a chaperone when he goes out with his GF (only because MrsGGB caught them Fcking on the front lawn in the middle of the afternoon two weeks ago...could just as easily been one of the kids, or our neighbor's 3yo that came across them). He's also gotten negative on his HS experience. This is a HS he loved until last winter. We think it changed with this GF, as she's gone on how she hates her school (all girls, sister school to S17's school) since we first met her. Anyway, comparatively speaking, I guess we don't have it so bad...but.