Ok...right off the bat hon, you've got to learn to communicate with your H without escalating the situation. Now, before you go getting all defensive about what I just said....think about it. How do statements like these HELP the situation?
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If you think that's the best thing for your family, go right ahead." To which he replies, "we'll do 'ookies' (his cute dimunitive phrase for the deed) tomorrow - I just need to decompress, it's been a long week..." Yea, whatever, I say. Sometimes I throw in some pouting and extra bitchiness to my voice. If it escalates, he usually throws in something on the order of, "why are you so horny? (or if he's really pissed - why are you such a little piggie (which I think is a rather telling statement) and I may say something on the order of, "this really sucks" "why can't we compromise" "maybe I should go get some somewhere else".
I mean, just in reading what you wrote there...from your responses to his comments, YOU are looking for the situation to escalate. Are you really looking for that or does it just seem to happen?
When someone throws things like that at you...ok, I'll speak for myself here...when someone throws statements like that at me...or heck even my H...either one of us will automatically go on the defensive, because they are attacking statements...meant to put someone on the defensive, they aren't comments that are going to make them open up to you. When you put someone on the defensive, what are they going to do? Retreat, or fight back....they AREN'T listening to what you are saying because they are to busy defending their position or running for the hills....and you will not get what you are after, all you'll end up is angry, sad, and defeated.
Next...check that bitchiness at the door, it will serve no good purpose. Does that mean you have to be Mrs. Pollyana? Of course not, but that bitchy tone of voice has got to go. When you adopt it...he's not listening. You can speak honestly and effectively with him...without that bitchy tone, and get much more in the way of results. I can speak from experience on that.
Next...throwing out statements like "maybe I should go get some somewhere else". What are you a five year old? I say that, and I know how it sounds...but that's the equivalent of an adult temper-tantrum. "I'm gonna take my goodies and go play with someone else if you won't play with me....NOW!" Once again, counter-productive. How do you expect this man to want to pursue you...when you are threatening to go sleep with someone else?!!! Ain't gonna happen hon. Don't try to intimidate him into having sex with you...that is exactly what you are attempting to do.
You have a major obstacle to over-come as I see it to get to where you want to be...and that's to learn to communicate effectively with your H, AND learn how to allow him to come to you. Now, I'm not going to lie...learning to ease up enough so you can create an environment that will invite him in to pursue you isn't going to be easy for you, at least I don't think it is...right now, you are so revved up on trying to get from point A to Z....that I'm not sure you are ready to see the work it's going to take to get there. I'm also not sure at this point that you are willing to do the work, because the results may not come quickly...I get the impression you'd rather seek it elsewhere than do the work. Am I wrong? I hope so....but this statement leads me to think you are already justifying it "Oh, and I wrote our vows - they state, "I vow to freely share my body, mind and soul", they do NOT state, "I will not share my body, mind and soul with other people"." You do understand I hope that there is an implied understanding that the sharing is between you and your H...you are justifying cheating with semantics. Unless you WENT INTO your marriage with the understanding that it would be an OPEN marriage, the monogamy is implied by the marital contract. I'm pretty damned sure...your H would see it that way.
Last...getting the results you are looking for is going to take you doing something that requires you to let go of trying to control this situation. Right now, you are still trying to control it...no one wants to be controlled and there are two of you in your relationship, so if you are trying to control the situation and bully/bitch him into doing what you want....who are you trying to control? Your H of course...and he's having none of that.
FWIW...I've been where you are. So I'm not telling you anything to do...that I haven't had to do myself.
Oh and just so you know...the bitchy tone comes through on here loud and clear too...so drop the defensiveness. You came here looking for help...help doesn't always come in the form you expect it to. There is no 1-2-3 solution for you.....and Corrie, is one smart cookie who has been through an awful lot. You have her pegged all wrong....but not ONE of us here is going to sugar coat things, or pull punches. If we think you need a 2x4 upside the head because you are being stubborn, pig headed, or just flat-out rude...you're going to get it. Likewise, if we think you need a hug or some compassion...you will get that too. So please...drop the tude. You may not think you are giving attitude, but I can feel it from reading your posts.
Sorry, Corri. I appreciate the insight you are offering (offered). Especially as I am not sure what angle you are coming from, I was out of line throwing out the barb. It was my (not-so-evolved) response to feeling attacked. I am happy to take responsibility for who I am and where I'm at.
I've given hubby the book. Nothing happened. I've tried to read it to him. He tells me to stop and I do. I've emailed excerpts and get "very nice - thanks for sharing" comments.
I'm sure he would rather post on some foosball, motocross, or jetskiing site. I don't even think he'd even come here to read this thread if I told him it existed. Well, maybe he would if I told him I was being told to get out of the center of the universe chair, lol. Except, that I share that seat with him most of the time...
MJ, I think I get what you are saying.
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Clearly if I had been less of a "little piggie", as your H so charmingly put it, I could have been a better friend to the girl because I would have insisted on playing more interesting games some of the time and therefore I would have better enjoyed her company. Near the end of my marriage my H wrote in a note "IOU 10 years of fun" It was definitely a case of "too little, too late" but the only person who owed me 10 years of fun was myself. Don't wait too long or eventually what will happen is one day you'll get the notion that the Easter Candy is actually kind of stale and then there will be no attraction at all left in the marriage.
Yes, I did used to enjoy his company more before I became more and more bitter and disgruntled with our sex life. But, I certainly don't love him only for sex. However, I'm already at the point of walking away b/c of the sex, but I don't believe in divorce. There are always life challenges whether in a relationship or two or five or none at all except with oneself. I don't mind working, athough it irritates me that I get to work alone in this relationship (tho the glass more full side of me says, there cannot be an action without an equal and opposite reaction and that any work I do will be met with the same from him albeit not with any grand proclamative fanfare). So, really - I need to focus on making him feel like king cock in and out of the bedroom without any expectations, and then maybe our sex life will improve?
Truly - thanks to everyone who is dealing with me here - some of what you are typing is coming in loud and clear, especially with the extra pounding into my apparently thick and apathetic queen-of-all head. ;-)
-LQT
ps: I would eat a good amount of easter/halloween candy but nicely save and organize the rest to enjoy for some time to come... ;-) my personal tagline is "shine & reflect in equal measure"
36 y/o HD in committed monogomous relationship for 15 years (at least on my end, assumed on his as well) 2 children, 6.5 dd & 5 ds
FWIW (and this may confuse things), your tone does not come across as particularly b!tchy to me. Your tone seems assertive and forthright (a refreshing change of pace from the poor-me, victim tone that one often encounters), and I'm really not getting a big chip-on-the-shoulder thing. You sound like you're at that place that my late husband used to describe (he was a pilot), "I'm out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas."
Your tone seems assertive and forthright (a refreshing change of pace from the poor-me, victim tone that one often encounters), and I'm really not getting a big chip-on-the-shoulder thing. You sound like you're at that place that my late husband used to describe (he was a pilot), "I'm out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas."
I agree with LP. You sound like someone who is basically functioning at a high level and therefore you seem attractive. You are way ahead of the game than many people on this BB. All you need is some information and a change of perspective and I think you will be able to resolve things in your relationship quite well one way or the other.
What if you were reading a sex manual and you discovered that your technique for giving hand-jobs was all wrong because you were unconsciously thinking that a penis was just like a giant clitoris? Basically, you are making a mistake in terms of sexual psychology along those lines. You are operating in what I call "lioness" mode. Your sexuality is strong, assertive, hungry, on-the-prowl etc. A man who is in really strong "lion" mode would be able to meet you on a level playing field and the sex would be quite strong. OTOH, you could easily find men who would like to be dominated and would "fall" sexually to your lioness but you probably wouldn't like this yourself on a regular basis. I know many very HD women but I don't know if I've ever met a woman who really gets off on being a dominatrix.
Partly what you are doing is unconsciously "modeling" masculine behavior for your H. Men read this as either competitive or insulting. I completely understand that you mean no harm by doing this. I've made the mistake myself. You probably just feel like you are trying to be "fair" in your relationship. You're thinking "I do all these great things for him why can't he do great things for me?" but he just sees it as you jacking up the level of competition.
So what you need to do is get yourself out of "lioness" mode and into either "monkey" or "bunny" mode (There is a 4th mode which I call "cow" mode and it has some value in a relationship but it won't get you laid very often.) When you drop down from "lioness" into "monkey" mode, it's like you are becoming less assertive and more playful. Most men who are feeling reasonably strong will want to f*ck you in "monkey" mode because although psychologically you are playing boy to his man the fact that you are relatively small, feminine in appearance and playful rather than aggressive will cause men to read you as "cute" and "wants to be f*cked" When I'm in a good mood I am naturally quite "monkey". My current lover is pretty "strong" so mostly he finds me quite amusing and f*ckable in that mode.
Getting to "bunny" might be tougher for you (as it is for me.) Think about it this way. If you have any sons you know that young boys are frequently very sensitive and high-strung. In order to assume their adult gender roles they are taught to toughen up. Let's say a 10 year old boy wants to play with Barbie dolls. Can he go up to his best male friend and say "Let's play Barbies." No. However, he can go over to his little 4th grade girlfriends house and watch her play Barbies. This is kind of a lame analogy but maybe you can see where I am going with it. When you act "bunny" a man can relax his masculine posture because compared to you he is masculine. Of course, the problem with being in "bunny" mode is your own sex drive will be pretty much non-existent. You will only be "willing" or "responsive" but not "horny" or "desiring". So just consider it a way of psychologically "doing" a man sexually.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Sorry girls, but I surely don't pick up "assertive" from these posts. I pick up a spoiled little child that isn't getting her way and will do whatever it takes to get it
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I may say something on the order of, "this really sucks" "why can't we compromise" "maybe I should go get some somewhere else".
Putting out the threats will get you nowhere. As a matter of fact, keep pushing him and I can guarantee you HE will be the one that will probably go out and have the A, not you. Why? because he won't get the pressure from another woman that is there when HE wants her to be, not on her schedule.
Try going two years without sex and still remaining in a monogamous relationship sweetie - then maybe you will have something to really complain about.
Keep threatening him as to when YOU think YOU should do it and how often and you will find yourself living alone
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
HW, Yeah, that's more along my lines. In fact, this morning when I first saw this thread, I almost posted:
Loonyqt meet Cemar. Cemar, meet Loonyqt.
They seem to both be cut from the same, "it couldn't be my fault" cloth. Although I think LQ might actually take some of the advice to heart if she backs down long enough to digest some of it. Cemar, well, I think he's a lost cause.
GGB - interesting that you should bring Cemar into this picture because I too thought the same thing: "OMG, this is Cemar's female version of himself"
So Looyqt, if you are still here, check out Cemar's postings and you will know exactly what YOU sound like and how Cemar's behaviour is working for him in his own situation.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I did have a thought as I was reading this thread. And I hope Corri, GGB, Heywire, you guys take this the right way, as I truly mean no offense, just an observation.
It seems like there is a lot more 2x4s flying lately, and a lot less empathy that used to be present here. Granted, I've had my share of 2x4s pretty much the whole time I've been here, but it seems to me (and this may be a cognative bias) that newcomers here tend to get smacked a lot more FROM THE GET GO. It seems like there used to be a lot more "I'm sorry you are here and I understand your pain" type stuff from the beginning, and then the 2x4s would start flying if the "poor me" stuff continued for too long. I am not trying to say that you guys are lacking in empathy, far from it, I've seen some amazing amounts of empathy from nearly everyone here. And 2x4s are certainly a necessary step in nearly everyone's journey to understanding. But ...
I could be wrong ...
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
If it feels like you got hit with a 2x4, it could very well be that you did. That does not mean the board was swung in absence of empathy. Empathy may have held the hand at bay that was ready to shoot a gun.
Throwing around 'judgments,' to me, seems much more hurtful than getting hit with a 2x4. But, that's just me.
If it feels like you got hit with a 2x4, it could very well be that you did. That does not mean the board was swung in absence of empathy. Empathy may have held the hand at bay that was ready to shoot a gun.
I get it, and perhaps my use of the word empathy was not the best. I guess it is just me that my first reaction to a person who is doing something foolish is not to beat them over the head and tell them they are being foolish. Perhaps that is a "Nice Guy" failing of mine, and the source of many of my R problems.
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Throwing around 'judgments,' to me, seems much more hurtful than getting hit with a 2x4. But, that's just me.
I definitely agree that being judgemental is bad, but I'm not sure how you mean it in this context. Did you feel I was being judgemental in my previous post here?
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
