...'this exercise of 'self' is the one of the most effective ways to keep yourself OUT of that comfy cozy C.U. Chair...
I can see this working very well by focusing so much attention on yourself that the one-sidedness of doing everything for me, me, me becomes obvious. I would think this means you have a sense of empathy for how this one-sidedness is making others feel, and that you have a sense of guilt over that.
But what if the other person does not have that sense of empathy or guilt, or if that person has such strongly tinted glasses that s/he thinks being in the C.U. chair actually evens things out and that chair is where they rightly should be?
Bet you can guess who I have in mind, and I'm wondering if I were to actively PUT my wife in the C.U. chair and go out of my way to make her the center of everything (by acknowledging all her wants, wishes, needs, etc.), how would she react and would some of my complaints become more apparent to her? The problem with my wife is that her wants, wishes and needs are better met by completely leaving her alone, but I suppose there could be a way to highlight that "need" as well, though I'm not sure what it would be.
But what if the other person does not have that sense of empathy or guilt, or if that person has such strongly tinted glasses that s/he thinks being in the C.U. chair actually evens things out and that chair is where they rightly should be?
LOL! Hmmm... let me think back on myself when, not so long ago, I was very comfy in that chair... and can still hop back in it, if I'm not paying attention...
Welp. I was one very confused and unhappy person, and I was pretty much convinced that people (namely the H) were doing things TO me, I was the one doing all the work, I was the one making concessions, I was the one suffering... oh poor me.
While sitting in that chair, I had no real understanding of the choices I was making, UNCONSCIOUSLY. It was always someone else's fault. Oh, sure, I could admit to being pouty or combative... didn't change anything, because I always felt powerless. (And I did that so I didn't have to make all those uncomfortable and painful changes... I wasn't steering my own ship, and I was always blaming other people for my ship sailing in waters I didn't want to be in. Yet. I was the one who refused to steer my own ship. Hmmmmm.)
If the other person is determined to be in that chair, just to keep the score 'even,' then I'd say... the only way to 'win' is not to play the game. THAT is why I'm saying to GGB... by focusing on yourself like you are... knowing what your emotions are, what your purpose is, what makes you happy... when things 'happen' in life, you understand that you can now make informed decisions and choices, based on Who You Are, and your purpose, rather than on constant emotional knee jerk reactions TO other people. (that's the C.U. Chair).
Quote:
I'm wondering if I were to actively PUT my wife in the C.U. chair and go out of my way to make her the center of everything (by acknowledging all her wants, wishes, needs, etc.), how would she react and would some of my complaints become more apparent to her?
I think this would be way too subtle. Again, your power comes from within. If you stick her in that C.U. chair, all you are doing is 'manipulating.' She isn't the center of your world, and I don't think it is an honest expression of Who You Are.
I don't know if your wife is ever going to be empathetic. I know how frustrating that is to you. But look at it this way:
1) My wife appears (to me) to be oblivious to my needs and wants. <-- This is not your problem.
2) It appears to me that as a result of her behavior, I am feeling frustrated. <-- THIS is your problem, IF you use that feeling as an excuse to behave in ways that are counter to YOUR goals.
So you are feeling frustrated. I am not saying that flippantly. But it IS your emotion. It isn't good or bad. What power you choose to give to that emotion can elicit all different kinds of outcomes. Any action you take CAN BE completely independent of this feeling. (Steering your own ship). If you give in to the feeling, and blame her for your subsequent actions (if she weren't so oblivious, I wouldn't act this way)... YOU are the one now in the C.U. Chair, and SHE is steering your ship.
Is that making any sense?
Quote:
The problem with my wife is that her wants, wishes and needs are better met by completely leaving her alone, but I suppose there could be a way to highlight that "need" as well, though I'm not sure what it would be.
My xH used to say that to me all the time. I can see why it would appear to him that this was the case. If he stopped 'being him,' then I wouldn't act in ugly ways. See how this is a two-fold problem?
He could act any way he wanted. He stopped 'being him.' He didn't have to do that. He chose to do so.
I could act in any way I wanted. I didn't HAVE to act ugly. I didn't HAVE to withdraw. Those were my choices.
But they were choices I was making unconsciously, and since they were, it felt like HE was controlling me. My life continuously felt 'reactionary.' And it was.
Can you see why? When you sit in the C.U. Chair, you are unwilling or unable to own your own behaviors and choices.
GGB is regaining control of HIS SHIP. He may not want to make 'withdrawing' from the R a standard action he takes, but at least right now he understand that that was his decision to do so. He chose NOT to respond in his habitual way, though the 'emotion' was the same as any other time this particular cycle with Mrs. GGB occurs.
He simply made another choice. And in so doing, he is now experiencing the POWER of choice, and he is now in a different place to make different choices, because he got where he is through conscious choice. If it were an unconscious choice, it'd just be the same ole' same ole', BTDT, poor me, I'm stuck... here we go again.
He'll have to speak for himself... but... is this making any sense?
Hey Cobra: One of the "breaking free" exercises suggested in the Nice Guy book is relevant here. It says to do one of two very different things: either begin a "caretaking" moratorium ("caretaking" is the type of behavior wherein we have an expectation of quid pro quo by doing good deeds for others) or, to consciously engage in MORE caretaking behavior. Of course, both of these are an attempt to make YOURSELF more aware of your caretaking behavior and how you feel when you stop doing it, or when you do it more often than usual.
Depending on your W's sense of guilt or empathy to change her thinking about the C.U. chair seems like a trap you're setting for her; a very deliberate trap. I don't think that's what Corri means when she suggests that exercising your 'self-ness' is a great way to keep yourself out of the chair. I think it's more about taking care of yourself so that others don't have to.
Eh...don't be happy for me. I may "get it" on paper, but I'm still a long way from living it. Kind of like the genius teacher of economics, who continues to be a spendthrift.
Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better, though.
Eh...don't be happy for me. I may "get it" on paper, but I'm still a long way from living it. Kind of like the genius teacher of economics, who continues to be a spendthrift.
Sorry. I'm still happy for you. Even have tears in my eyes. BTW, I wish you wouldn't 'trash' my compliments... it hurts. Lord knows I've worked you over with my pointy witch shoes far more than I've complimented you, over the years...
Oh. {Head slap} But... yeah... I get to compliment you whether you take my compliments the way I want you to or not. And you get to take them any way you want...
Quote:
Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better, though.
This whole exercise is making me realize that I have a choice in how things pan out through the way I CHOOSE to deal with my emotions. While withdrawal wasn't really what I wanted, doing it made it abundantly clear that I have options on how I choose to deal with any given situation, and it is clear that my reaction affects her reaction in turn. Yeah, there's a snowball that starts rolling down the hill, but guess what...There is more than one hill, and I get to pick the hill I want to roll it down.
The hard part is cranking up the courage to not take the well worn path.
Yep, I’m with you on your whole explanation, and I guess the final answer is the usual answer, you decide what you want and whether the other person can meet your wants or not. If not, then you can take some action, including D. Fine. That’s well understood in our M. But we still have the nagging problem of what to do with the kids and how all this would affect them. So it is not a case of finding an optimal outcome, but choosing the lesser of two evils.
This is a shame, because as I mentioned somewhere else, all this can be avoid through knowledge. Just as you are now more aware of how you were in the C.U. chair before, my marriage could change so much if my wife could only gain your insights.
Hairdog,
I did read the book and taking a day off from caretaking has been pretty standard for me for some time now. This is counteracted by my wife’s decision to do the same for myself and the family, and instead turn her focus to her job. Her complaint now is that I don’t help enough to clean up around the house (duh!). Well, I do my share of cleaning, plus yard work, but I stopped trying to keep things clean while she trashes the house with her school papers. So the mess of the house has become obvious to her but it is my fault. Too bad.
The problem with this way of thinking is that it can end up putting the relationship back into stand off mode and create a new form of power struggle. If the other person does not want to cooperate, then all you can do is just focus on yourself. You end up leading parallel lives, which is not a relationship.
Depending on your W's sense of guilt or empathy to change her thinking about the C.U. chair seems like a trap you're setting for her; a very deliberate trap.
All lessons that we learn come about as a “trap” in one way or another. If we cannot learn the “easy” way by listening to others and making our own changes voluntarily, then we need to experience the consequences of not changing and feel the discomfort that results. Then, if the discomfort is high enough, we might make the conscious choice to change behavior. For an non-empathic person, this seems like the more common path.
Cobra, I think you missed the point. This whole thing isn't about doing things to control your spouse. It is recognizing that you have options to how you react to your own emotions and encouraging yourself to react in such a way that you are true to yourself rather than in a way that you think will get your spouse to react the way you want her to. The first is getting ahold of yourself. The second is just being controlling, which will get you nowhere fast.
