Of course I consider my role - again it takes 2, right?, and I have done different things, well differently outside of the bedroom for years and the frequency doesn't really change.
Boy... you are determined to dodge my question. Let me try again.
Yes. It takes 2. And I want to know about your half of the 2. I'm not asking about him and what he is or isn't doing to contribute to the problem. I am asking YOU what you are DOING to contribute to the ongoing problem of your SSM. I'm not asking you what you are trying to do to get what you want...
"It's my fault because I decided to marry him," is a piss poor cop-out, and it doesn't fall under 'what I'm doing to contribute to the problem,'... unless you married him knowing that he had a very low sex drive but expected that he would meet or exceed your own sex drive once you got married.
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Again - give me tangible, executable advice. ex. blow kisses 5 times when he leaves for work each day. Communicate 1-4 text messages (no more, no less) when he is away for a duration of 6 or more hours. (I'm making this s&*t up - but kwim?)
Yeah, I know what you want, but it doesn't work that way. That statement is absent of empathy, respect and regard for him... which may be part of the problem... ya think? ;-)
Do you honestly start bitching about the lack of sex if you haven't had it in over a week? Truthfully? If so, that right there is enough to pressure a man and drive him right in the other direction.
Not all men thrive on having a woman who is hot to trot all the time, much less demanding of sex. True that may be some men's dream...but not all. I'm married to someone who shuts down if I put pressure on like you do. If you two are having sex at least three times a month, then I'm fairly certain yours doesn't have the issues mine does....but back off woman! I guess from my impression of your posts...you aren't giving him any time to come to you REALLY on his own accord without expectations from you. Have you even considered what your absolute minimal time for frequency as far as sex is concerned would be...and try to compromise on that with your H? Or are you going for YOUR number in frequency that you would prefer? Honest question, I don't know. If you are going for your preference of (oh lets pull something out the air)...3 times a week, then he's not going to meet that most likely. So you ask him what his preference would be....lets say his is the three times a month (once again pulling out of the air)...due to schedules or whatever. So shoot for something somewhere in the middle...like once a during the week sometime, and once on the weekend maybe.
Can you give us an idea of what life is like in your household after a week of no sex. An example of a conversation if you don't mind...that could be helpful.
I have to agree with Corri though, I sense a definite lack of empathy from you. Are you even trying to understand why your H is behaving this way...or are you just trying to find the magic combination to change his behavior?
Oh and reason's why not to have an affair. YOU ARE MARRIED. YOU TOOK VOWS. You aren't having sex once a month, once a quarter, or once a year. While you may not have the frequency you would prefer....if that is the ONLY issue in your marriage, you have it good sweetie. Don't go looking for some on the side and risk your marriage, that's a stupid gamble....when chances are there are other issues preventing you from obtaining what you want. Having an affair will only make the situation WORSE.
Corri - I am a pretty intelligent and evolved person. I already outlined that I can be pushy in my pursuit, and bitchy when rejected. Isn't that enough as my role in my SSM? What more do you want?
And yes, the drive incompatability was evident after 7 years of togetherness before we got married. I didn't expect him to change, per se; however, the disparity has gotten worse since my hormones have kicked in higher gear and my kiddos are old enough so that I am no longer sleep deprived because of night time kiddie escapades.
And, I'm not sure why we have to play Freud in order for things to move forward. Why can't I ask for specific behavioral recommendations? Why won't that work? Re-read the preface/1st chapter in the SSM. That's the whole point of M.W.D.'s book, isn't it?
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That statement is absent of empathy, respect and regard for him... which may be part of the problem... ya think? ;-)
I respect my husband, but as I have had to squelch my desires to stay monogomous, I would say the lack of empathy falls more on him than me... Being a good UU and girl scout leader, I can empathize with the best. But when you hear the same crap "I'm tired", "there's just no way I'm going to be horny tonite" (even after I offer, repeatedly, to apply a little oral love to get the game going), "I really just need to unwind with some TV/working-out, i-phone stuff", or my personal fave - "why are you so horny all the time?", it doesn't speak of working together in mutual empathy, respect and regard. I ask him how he's feeling, I apply my MBA to his work as requested, I take care of the kids (parent participation preschool, volunteering in classroom, girl scout leader) and share stories of their development, I consult to the tune of ~$100/hr and squirrel away a decent amt. of savings, I pay the bills and do the taxes, I am healthy and work out ~4x/wk, I take hundreds of pictures of our family monthly and create beautiful albums, I ask what he'd like to eat and I cook gourmet meals (no hamburger helper in my kitchen), etc. I am a good wife, and I just want to have a good sex-life (where both people are happy, or at least not miserable).
I coule be wrong, but it seems to me that you are a defensive LD person and as such you want to over-analyze that which I presented and lay fingers back in my direction as the faulty party. The fact that you take my request for positive action that I can engage in as being blatantly absent of empathy, respect and regard just blows me away... I am looking for help here because I am sad and lonely in my marriage bed, and I already do so much to keep my slut-like tendencies channeled to better tendencies. Is it so much to ask for tangible advice on how to help stoke the desire fires without being painted as a heartless bitch?
36 y/o HD in committed monogomous relationship for 15 years (at least on my end, assumed on his as well) 2 children, 6.5 dd & 5 ds
FWIW...I'm an HD woman, and I'm reading you much the same way Corri is. Just because you CAN empathize with the best of em...doesn't mean you are with your H....and sorry, it doesn't fall more on him than you. I know you feel it should, but it doesn't....at the very least it should be 50/50. You saying that makes me feel you think you are entitled to having your needs met unconditionally....as nice as that would be (and don't we all wish it were that way)...it's not the case. A marriage license does not entitle any of us to having our needs met unconditionally. Believe me, I know the pain you are going through, I understand that as well as any woman can....I went a year with my H having sex only ONCE...and remained faithful.
Honestly, and this is speaking as truthfully as I can...there is more lacking in your relationship than just S.E.X. There is intimacy lacking...with intimacy can come increased desire for sex...but without empathy, you will have little to no intimacy to build from. Each person is made up differently...you have a higher sex drive than your H does, that's a huge pain I know. That means though that to get to where you want to be you have to learn to understand your H and what drives him.
Truthfully...look at YOUR behavior towards your H. It's NOT as simple as saying this is the behavior I want to see from my H. YOU ARE GOING to have to really look within yourself to figure out what behaviors of your own are contributing to the undesireable behavior you are seeing in your H (the lack of being pursued by him...etc.) It seems to me from your own post, with his own words that he wants to pursue you...but doesn't feel like he can, because you aren't giving him the room to do so.
There is REALLY something to be said in the fact that he's told you flat-out that he doesn't feel that you give him room to pursue you. I can soooo see that if you get ancy after a few days or a week. Out of curiosity...have you ever had your MD check your hormone levels, just to see if you have a higher testosterone level? I'm just curious...if you do I'm not suggesting altering it (just to be clear), but it might help your H understand better, if it were the case.
Your H is a man with feelings you have to take into account...I had to in order to improve my situation. You know...with my H simply bringing up the lack of sex was perceived as nagging by him, intitiating sex was perceived as pressure, flirting was perceived as pressure...even when "I" didn't think I was nagging....he took it as nagging. But I had to understand that is how HE perceived it...even if it's not how I intended it. That's where the empathy comes in....if he perceives bringing it up, or perceives your getting bitchy after a week as pressure....then YOU are making it impossible for him to pursue you, because YOU are constantly coming at him. A man cannot pursue if he is being chased....and it appears to me that you are in continual chase mode. Perhaps that's out of habit now, constantly trying to get what you want from him, but it's counter-productive. It's also a vicious circle that when we want something so badly we tend to do all the wrong things to get it....i.e. you chasing continually, keeps pushing him away, so you chase harder/faster/louder, and he keeps running.
So you say you try to back off for a few days to give him a chance to pursue you...but he doesn't. Know why? Because you've trained him to expect you to rush right at him again...he doesn't trust that you will be able to sit back and wait for him to come to you. It's kind of like when you play that hand slapping game with someone...you know the one where you lay your hand out flat over someone else's and try to move it before someone smacks it. Well after a few times of being smacked...your hand doesn't stay so still anymore does it? You pull it back and the first sign the other person is going to slap you...same dynamic.
Unfortunately it's not as simple as telling him that you want xyz from him either. Sure would be nice if we could do that and our partners would comply...but the fact is that men react to emotions and outside stimuli just as we women do...they aren't just logic/reaction based. There actually is need to get into all that Fruedian crap to change a dynamic within a relationship...and YOU are a part of that relationship dynamic...it's just a fact.
I think you will find that for any of us on here...who have had some success (myself included) there has been a great need to delve into that "Fruedian crap", and discover what other issues existed in our marriage that were stumbling blocks to the intimacy we so craved. And that my friend is what you are really craving, intimacy....not just sex.
Oh and as far as the "he knows this I think...." comment. Haven't you flat-out told him?
That's why I'm here!! I'm looking for specific behavioral strategies that I can employ. Give me the words, the actions - I want to know all I can do to help change the situation.
Well, you came up with a doozy all by yourself:
Originally Posted By: loonyqt
the 2nd which he initiated after he came home around 2am after being out playing foosball Sat. night compete with massive sloppy kisses (which I adore) AND a brief bout of down under tonguing (which I also adore). yippee! The only thing I can tell you about Sat. was that we were at a kiddie bday party where I was all over my husband like a fly on honey and telling everyone (ok, just a couple really close girlfriends) what a stud he was... normally, I don't do anything like this, because a) I'm not in having-just-been-laid happy mode when out and about with him and b) I don't try to embarass him b/c he is rather reserved about his sex life... but damn if it didn't work!
Mmmm.... Yes, more of that, please! Making him feel like a studmuffin is a good way to get him out of his shell. Making him feel like he's failed you is a good way to get him further into his shell. As someone who's long had a tendency to be quite a lot like Mr. loonyqt, I suspect that he's got quite a bit of shame, self-loathing, and other stuff like that that makes him very reluctant to let loose in any way. Sex pretty much requires letting loose, especially if you want it to be any good. So what you can do is convince him that (a) you know him inside and out and (b) you're impressed with him and crazy about him. That should help matters, although only he can really address these issues and get his mind where it needs to be. I don't have a clue how to get him to do this... Mrs. Eddie didn't do a thing to get me to a doctor (and I can't think of anything she could have done to get me to do it), I finally went on my own, and luckily we both hung in there long enough for it to happen.
Oh yeah, and he may be "embarrased" if you brag about him that way, but it'll be the kind of embarrased where he'll protest because he thinks he should but is secretly on cloud nine.
Originally Posted By: loonyqt
He leads. I am not over the top. It is very routine, but still satisfying, and I do not complain about it as is. I have mentioned I would like to do more, but will take the status-quo. He knows this (I think) :-)
What do you mean by "more"? Does he know what you mean by "more"? Maybe he would like more but isn't sure if it would go well or if you would enjoy it. Even if you're up for more, he'll probably still doubt that it'll go well.
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 08/28/0701:12 AM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Yes, I keep the bitch factor in check until about the week-mark, which also generally corresponds to a few bouts of initiation with rejection, as well. Also, I can hold my tongue more than a week IF he isn't off galavanting on some manly late-night pursuit of foosballing at his fave beachside pub or motocrossing a weekend day away... that's usually when the tongue starts wagging. "So, it's more important to you to go ____, than spend time with your wife?" If you think that's the best thing for your family, go right ahead." To which he replies, "we'll do 'ookies' (his cute dimunitive phrase for the deed) tomorrow - I just need to decompress, it's been a long week..." Yea, whatever, I say. Sometimes I throw in some pouting and extra bitchiness to my voice. If it escalates, he usually throws in something on the order of, "why are you so horny? (or if he's really pissed - why are you such a little piggie (which I think is a rather telling statement) and I may say something on the order of, "this really sucks" "why can't we compromise" "maybe I should go get some somewhere else".
Oh, and I wrote our vows - they state, "I vow to freely share my body, mind and soul", they do NOT state, "I will not share my body, mind and soul with other people".
Are humans really meant to be monogomous? I mean 14 years of the same ol, same ol is fine with me, but maybe he's bored and could care less and that's the defining piece of his low desire? My preference is to have hot & heavy sex with him on a regular basis, but if he's not willing, why is it so wrong for me to have sex on the side? Again, that is NOT my preference but what I currently have is not cutting it...
My ideal is every morning and night. I really want every night. I can live with 3x/wk. But, in all honesty - I just want to switch out the dynamic we have so that sex is more frequent and more passionate than our avg. 3x/m. If we can double that, that would be a good start. I am not unreasonable...
36 y/o HD in committed monogomous relationship for 15 years (at least on my end, assumed on his as well) 2 children, 6.5 dd & 5 ds
What do you mean by "more"? Does he know what you mean by "more"? Maybe he would like more but isn't sure if it would go well or if you would enjoy it. Even if you're up for more, he'll probably still doubt that it'll go well.
LOL! I've pulled out sex toys, lingerie, porn, etc. I try to go down on him, suck/bite/focus on other body parts, get out costumes (somehow I got him to play along with me and we were S&M's last year -kids M&M costumes repurposed for a 3day breastwalk fundraising masquarade) but all that's usually met with "what's wrong with you?", Why cant you be normal? Apparently he thinks a normal woman is not really intersted in sex and could care less about all the romantic and/or sexy stuff. Gosh, he doesn't even usually let me be on top. He is so about being "in control" and when we do have sex, it's very "in the dark" - no candles, blinds shut, covers on, and he sets the pace.
But then again, I orgasm almost every time we have sex - I tell him how happy us being intimate makes me.
I'll go with the grand public proclamation of "he's a studmuffin", per your suggestion.
36 y/o HD in committed monogomous relationship for 15 years (at least on my end, assumed on his as well) 2 children, 6.5 dd & 5 ds
sorry, it doesn't fall more on him than you. I know you feel it should, but it doesn't....at the very least it should be 50/50. You saying that makes me feel you think you are entitled to having your needs met unconditionally....
[b] Hell, I'll take 90% responsibility... just give me tools. So, I don't touch him - what, ever? I don't initiate, when, ever? I bat my eyelashes and tell everyone I know how lucky I am to have such a stud for a hubby? But how long do I do this? always? Do I never get to initiate? Do I never get to say, "hey, what about me?" How long before I should start seeing results? What else should I do?
This sucks. :-(
36 y/o HD in committed monogomous relationship for 15 years (at least on my end, assumed on his as well) 2 children, 6.5 dd & 5 ds
Oh my God! I like you so much because you are so much "worse" than me. lol
Do you really enjoy your H's company apart from the sex? Did you used to enjoy it more? Here's why I ask. When I was a greedy little girl I had a friend who still had most of her Easter candy when summer vacation started (mine of course had been converted into major tummy ache within 24 hours) It was all displayed most attractively and temptingly up on her dresser in plain sight. I would go over to her house and play boring *ss games like Hi Ho Cherry Oh in the hope that I might get a jelly bean or perhaps a sliver of chocolate. Clearly if I had been less of a "little piggie", as your H so charmingly put it, I could have been a better friend to the girl because I would have insisted on playing more interesting games some of the time and therefore I would have better enjoyed her company. Near the end of my marriage my H wrote in a note "IOU 10 years of fun" It was definitely a case of "too little, too late" but the only person who owed me 10 years of fun was myself. Don't wait too long or eventually what will happen is one day you'll get the notion that the Easter Candy is actually kind of stale and then there will be no attraction at all left in the marriage. (Especially if it hurts your feelings to be called a little piggie.)
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Corri - I am a pretty intelligent and evolved person. I already outlined that I can be pushy in my pursuit, and bitchy when rejected. Isn't that enough as my role in my SSM? What more do you want?
For you to knock it off, and get out of that Center of the Universe Chair (it's quite comfy cozy, and I spent many years in it myself). That is positive action you can take. Have your H read SSM and have him come here and post. Other positive actions you can attempt.
You are the one showing up asking for help, and then getting all pissey and b!tchy because you aren't getting the answers YOU WANT. Hm. Seems to be a pattern here. And since you are here, and your H isn't, then I guess YOU are the one who gets to do the work.
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I coule be wrong
You are.
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but it seems to me that you are a defensive LD person and as such you want to over-analyze that which I presented and lay fingers back in my direction as the faulty party.
LOL!!! You have no idea. No. Really. You don't.
Okay, I was giving you my time. I don't owe it to you. I was trying to help your azz... now... I'm just dropping you on it.
