Newcomer in Pain

[GainingStrength]

Nugget - Thanks for all the research. The bullet points really do help.

Nikki - I think the two activities do conflict emotionally. On the one hand, you are trying to be there for the spouse and to be supportive and helpful. On the other, you are trying to detach from them emotionally, as if they are just another acquaintance.
My solution, which is working pretty well for me, has been to go dark(or Plan B as Marriage Builders calls it). I have limited all contact, mostly about the kids' schedules and the divorce settlement, to e-mails and voicemails. No more popping into my home office on her way in or out and I screen all calls. She is exceptionally verbal, so this is driving her crazy. At first, she got all pissed off and spewed. I stood my ground and now she is grudgingly accepting it. Anyway, it is truly helping me to detach and still DB by being cooperative via e-mail and avoiding any expressions of anger. The detachment is being helped by remembering all her defects, even apart from the escapades I described in my posts above. You have to walk a fine line though. If you spend too much time working on detachment, you end up wondering why you're bothering with any DBing at all. So far, I'm doing the balancing act ok.

Below are e-mails on why you need to balance DBing with detachment. At the risk of boring everyone, I think the one below from W also shows how WAS's can have occasional lapses from their focus on the A and the D. I was caught off guard and allowed myself to get sucked in because of her lapse into a human being before she bungied-corded back to her normal mode of insane affair-addicted Martian. You can see my reply to her e-mail below it. As a result of lowering my guard, I allowed her to lure me onto the roller coaster for one day (today, I'm back in dark mode, sending only functional e-mails about schedules, etc.) Anyway, here are the two e-mails:
 
".... Frankly, I am thrilled and happy with my life - I
am getting love and feel so much lighter. I am getting support from many others. Not necessarily my family, but from real friends and long time people who know me.   
 
I am sad about Dylan [our S]. But he is right from his paradigm.  However, he will do well with you, and I wish both of you happiness in your living arrangement.  I was a good mother for him, and he has my heart forever.  I will never turn my back on him, and hope one day he will understand the complications that are the human heart and condition.
 
As far as you go, I am deeply disappointed, and know you are too.  But no, I am not angry.  I am disappointed it took divorce to get you to go to church and to live more fully. On the other hand, perhaps these are good things coming out of a sad situation. You bear responsibility for this divorce, it's not just me and you know it.  I am getting all the judgment but you
know, you had a great deal with me - I was a wonderful wife, mother, worker, and a trophy to be cherished, [I guess I should have prostrated myself more] I did my best and it just didn't work out any longer.  That is the sad part. I do not feel you are capable of loving me, and that is what has hurt for a long time.  I was a work horse when I should not have had to be so much so.  I am exhausted emotionally for carrying you in this regard.  You are a wonderful father, and frankly, since the separation, even better, very impressive, good for you! I am proud of you. [nice 180 at the end; made me a little dizzy following the stream of consciousness]
 
I think you want to think I am angry.  I am upset with the very hurtful anddisrespectful statements from my son and no back up because I can't talk with you.  He was way out of line yesterday. But this too shall pass, and in the end, things will settle to a new normal. [she still can't understand why he is upset, and why he says he hates the OM and calls him a loser. Also, the new normal she thinks will be so glorious won't be. She thinks she's hurting now, just wait til the walls start crumbling and the guilt and recognition of loss start flooding in]
 
I will always at some level love you, but it's not the right kind of love for forever.
 
In meantime, I am just hurting in my own way.  And frankly, I am a little scared of the finances and being able to support Lisa in the manner she has had. But freedom from hurt comes with its own costs.
 
Have a good day.



And my response:

"I understand that you are happy with your new life and love and are not angry in general. However, you really are a little peeved with Dylan and I at the moment. Never mind. I'm glad you're happy.
 
You said a lot about your disappointment. I do have to respond a little. I have already told you more than once that I accept fully my share of responsibility for the conditions that led to our divorce. I was shut down and did not meet your emotional needs. However, when relationships get into trouble, it tends to be because the problems become a vicious circle with both people participating. I have never gotten into that with you much
though, and I don't intend to start now.
 
I was going to take issue with your statement that I was not capable of loving you. But now that I think about it more and how shut down I was, I think you're right. In fact, I think I got to the point where I was not capable of loving anyone (except for a couple of children).
 
Anyway, yes, I am living more fully. Most important to me, I am reaching out to old and new friends and giving and getting more feeling than I've ever had in my life. That has been the true gift and the other side of all the pain. I still feel rejection, and heartache for the loss of my family, but overall I am doing great now. I'm eating and sleeping well, I'm enjoying people, I'm excited about doing new things, and I'm really looking forward to the future!
 
Yes, you were a wonderful wife and mother. [I regret that sentence; not totally honest]
 
Larry

To show how she bungied back and totally dissed my above soul-baring, this was her reply to my e-mail: "Where are you tonight? If you are here know I will be out late at an event,
enjoy the house and feel free to relax." Guess she got scared by the feelings dredged up by the dialog which could be a threat to the A. So she pulled back quickly.

Sorry for the really long post. Any comments are welcome though.

Larry

[NikB]

Nugget - I feel like you just aced a homework assignment. You're absolutely right that detaching and DB'ing go hand in hand. And it is REALLY a hard concept to get. One I am still working on myself. I know it intellectually that in a happy M both people need to be detached and happy alone, all on their own, but CHOOSE to be together and create intimacy. It's not about dependency, control, etc. Tougher to "get it" emotionally though, for sure.

Larry - take some time to look through what Nugget posted on detachment, and work on letting it sink in some.

Detaching isn't at all the same as going dark or Plan B - although it sounds like the dark/plan B is what you need for your sanity right now, which is totally understandable.

That was a really great email from your W, told you a lot about where she is right now. I'm glad she opened up to you with that actually. Think it's a good sign. I do have some comments on your reply though. I know this is all really hard and it's tough for this stuff to sink in - but hope this helps offer a little different perspective.

"I understand that you are happy with your new life and love and are not angry in general. However, you really are a little peeved with Dylan and I at the moment. Never mind. I'm glad you're happy.

Don't tell her how she feels. The first part about "I understand..." is fine but really didn't need to be said - she already told you that. I think the only reason for this paragraph was so you could argue with her about how she's feeling (and maybe a little jab about the "new love").

You said a lot about your disappointment. I do have to respond a little. I have already told you more than once that I accept fully my share of responsibility for the conditions that led to our divorce.

You didn't have to respond... you've told her "more than once" so why say it again?

I was shut down and did not meet your emotional needs. However, when relationships get into trouble, it tends to be because the problems become a vicious circle with both people participating. I have never gotten into that with you much
though, and I don't intend to start now.

Very defensive - and telling her again that you're right, she's wrong, about what happened in the R. Anytime you're writing or thinking "but" or "however" - it's likely that you're doing this.

I was going to take issue with your statement that I was not capable of loving you. But now that I think about it more and how shut down I was, I think you're right. In fact, I think I got to the point where I was not capable of loving anyone (except for a couple of children).

Again defensive - you were going to argue with her, going to disagree. Even though you kind of backpedaled it, your entire reply comes across to me as arguing with her about how she feels, and defending yourself.

Anyway, yes, I am living more fully. Most important to me, I am reaching out to old and new friends and giving and getting more feeling than I've ever had in my life. That has been the true gift and the other side of all the pain. I still feel rejection, and heartache for the loss of my family, but overall I am doing great now. I'm eating and sleeping well, I'm enjoying people, I'm excited about doing new things, and I'm really looking forward to the future!

I think that this was the best part of your reply in that you acknowledged the "wake up call," but remember that your W isn't your emotional support right now, and doesn't want to be. All of this sharing how you're feeling with her is probably not going over well in her mind.

Yes, you were a wonderful wife and mother. [I regret that sentence; not totally honest]

Yeah.. probably wouldn't have said it, although for a different reason - the "were" sounds pretty final and like she's no longer a good mother, either. (which you may feel right now, but it's not the best time to tell her ).

Honestly I would have kept any reply to that email much shorter and sweeter. It didn't necessarily need a reply at all, but you could say something like:

"I agree, I'm disappointed that it took this, but I am glad that we're both learning to find happiness and live life more fully."

Please understand I'm not trying to beat you up here, just try and offer you a different way of looking at things.

[GainingStrength]

Nikki - Thanks for the thoughful reply. I will do a lot of thinking about your comments. (maybe you could be a coach...)

Larry

[NikB]

haha a coach? ME? Thanks for the PMA boost but I think I'm a looonng way off from that. Glad it was helpful for you though.

Hope your weekend's going well so far.

[GainingStrength]

Nikki - My weekend is going well so far. Saturday is my day with the kids so I took them up to MIL/FIL's house and we all went to the beach along with BIL/SIL and their Daughter. We had a great time windsurfing and skimboarding. However, our closeness is a MAJOR issue with the W. She feels shut out, left out and that her parents are taking my side. She hammered her parents and I each so hard, that we each had to tell her individually that she doesn't get to tell us who to hang out with. This was the major eruption of the week. Ironically, her mother continues to offer to get together with her and to be friends. However, the W is spending all her time with the OM. I guess choices have consequences...

But enough bout me. How are you doing with the piecing these days? I read your latest posts re the hula and the missing picture. I agree that it's a little thing (but maybe not so little) Anyway, emotionally it's got to be a major morale boost to you.

Keep working.

Larry

[NikB]

Good to hear it, Larry. Sounds like a fun day!!

I'm doing ok.. rollercoaster ride is drivin' me nuts a bit, but yeah, some major morale boosts the last week or so. Feeling much more in control again, which is a great place to be.

Saw that my dad emailed you and you wrote back - thanks!! Hope you can be a good extra source of support for each other.

[25yearsmlc]

Larry,

just got internet up here in the tundra. Actually not fair to call it tundra as the weather has been great and I am actually in a city....

I have no furniture yet and zero privacy so this is brief. Just catching up and must say, "ouch" for you in many ways. I feel for your son and boy is your wife rationalizing her guilt as a mom away. Even she has noticed, however, YOUR role as a dad and that is great. Keep it up. Gotta go tuck in d10 but wanted to say that Nikki's comments about your email were right on, to me. Don't defend and don't tell her how she feels. Just stay focussed on all the positives YOU are having now that you are in charge of your life. Do the 180's and act as if you are a totally new man except that you are still her familiar friend with history and the father of her children...

her feelings are all high school "didn't feel special enough" to you blah blah blah. Sure you neglected her and you'll do better next time....moving on....
more later. gotta go, take care ((( )))
j-

[GainingStrength]

J - I think my last reply to you was lost in cyberspace. Give me a hint where you are. Alaska?

As for me, I'm in a lot of pain today. Like Nikki, I'm ridin' the old rollercoaster. My S and I have been moving out of the house and into an apartment this Labor Day weekend. It's been really painful. Just now walked into our old bedroom to move some furniture, and guess who W is talking to on the phone, OM of course. She's picking him up at the airport later today. Flying back from seeing his family in San Antonio. She was eager to see him and getting all dolled up.

Funny, just two days ago, I wrote this in my journal:

"M said she missed talking to me. I told her me too, but "that's up to you". She also said: 'Maybe I'm too much woman for you. I just suck all the air out of the room. I'm just a pain in the ass'. I told her yes, she was a pain the ass, but she was definitely not too much woman for me and not to say that again. She said ok. She also said she felt great most of the time, but bad for the kids and all the pain this is causing [no sh*t]. She said she cried herself to sleep last night..."

And now today and the bungie cord snapping her back to the OM. Last night the S and I slept in the apt. for the first time. We came here to the house early to get more stuff. She was already up and we talked. She grabbed my hand and said she was really glad we were talking again, and that we had to get otgether at least once a week so she wouldn't miss me so much. She also said we needed to be all together on Christmas morning, just the four of us (W, S, D, and I). I said what about [OM]?" "Oh, he can come by later." Then, she talked about the new house she was going to buy with OM. Wow! Shows once again how she is able to send me back onto that rollercoaster from hell.

J (or anyone), give me some words of comfort. I'm really low right now.

Larry

[SunnySeason]

Hi Larry,

From reading the posts here this morning, there seem to be many from those that are scrapping the bottom today.

Could be that it's a Holiday & that brings up how different our lives are right now. Somehow it makes a difference in your attitude, whereas if it was a regular Monday & you didn't have plans, etc., it would be OK.

Shows once again how she is able to send me back onto that rollercoaster from hell.

It is a common theme & one that is tough to keep a good PMA going as you're hit with hurtful & thoughtless blows.
That's where expectations will trip you up.

Funny, just two days ago, I wrote this in my journal:

"M said she missed talking to me. I told her me too, but "that's up to you".

She's going to have to distance when you came towards her to maintain her space, you can count on it.

Try reading the "As If" article again. I've been reading it every morning for some grounding, & it helps.
Grasshoppers thread has some similarites to your sitch & is a good read also.

I'm sorry that this is so painful. Come here for support & keep yourself busy.

(((((Larry)))))

Sunny

[BeingMe]

Don't think I have posted to your thread, but I had to respond this time. WTF!!!!!! (Sorry, but only this language will suffice.) Your W is in some kind of fantasyland, that's for sure. Does she imagine y'all will be one big happy family, with you as the family doormat!!!! How insensitive can anyone be?

My advice, for now, is go dark! Go darker than dark! Give her enough space to feel your absence, and time to go through the process of life with the OM, and getting to the point, hopefully, of the realisation that the grass ain't greener on the other side. It is seldom that an affair will last, and certainly rarely ends up happily ... ya can't build your own happiness on the backs of other's misery. You need to do the DB'ing stuff for your own sanity.

Take care!