Still Tryin's new thread 2

[SuperDad]

Hi ST!

I'm assuming your a christian since you brought up the commandments

Actually the commandments were given to Moses last I checked! I personally am spiritual, but not affiliated with any church.

Jesus tells us if someone takes your coat, give him your tunic also... you know, turn the other cheek. Love your enemy.

Luke 6:27
But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also.......If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that....But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back...."

This is a major part of my plan. I have turned the other cheek more often than I can recall and still offer her compassion and am friendly and supportive. I have made no move to take over control of the family finances or cut her off in any way (she does not work outside the home). HOWEVER, I am not trying to be her friend. For example, I do not ask her to join me when I am doing things by myself or going out with friends. On the other hand, if I do something with the kids, I invite her to join (which she does less and less).

Of course you don't need to let her use you.

She is using me and I am consiously letting her do it (at least for now). There are a lot of reasons for my choice, not the least of which is the divorce law in FL. Also, it isn't a bad trade compared to being separated from my kids, even 1/2 time.

So how do you manage to get "closer" to your W?

I actually think we will need to move even further apart before we have a chance to try to get closer again. I am seriously thinking of moving to some sort of "after the last resort technique" or "Ultimatum" as outlined in DR. I am certain that this would cause her to pull away for the time being, but this could be the shock that she needs to begin to take action on her own.

Are you only just being cordial to her and letting her initiate all contact?

I am being cordial, she is locking herself in her room while sending messages on the computer. No real contact other than re. logistics of running a household and raising 2 kids.

Basically a "Do Nothing" strategy with 180s thrown in every now and again, like giving her complements on her new hair style, giving her a light shoulder rub once in a blue moon, or even flirting or telling a joke. I do this completely unpredictably and consiously, but not very often (once a week or so and always something different).

You don't really have to answer all my ?s if you don't want to. Just trying to understand exactly where you stand.

ST, I appreciate the thought that you put into this and am on this bb for exactly the reason that very few outside of this forum (civilians according to Stillme's lingo) have any clue about this topic.

Thanks again for the insight and questions.

SD

[S.T. _I Made It!]

SD...Is it really easy to quote like that? I guess I haven't really messed with this site on posting much. It really looks like you spent a lot of time with your post!

Yes, the commandments were given to Moses, but I don't know many people that truly believe in the commandments that aren't christians. then again, I live in the "bible belt".

It sounds like you are being a friend to her, but not trying to be friends per say. Thanks for clarifying. I think you may be right that she may have to really break off from you before she can come back. Sometimes people really do need a "knock in the head" before they wake up. But what is good is you DBing with her witnessing it. I think it's hard for people to have their spouse leave and then they find DB and try to DB, but it's difficult because their spouse isn't with them much.


Can I ask what the D law in FL is?

I appreciate you explaining your sitch to me. I will try to visit your sitch sometime soon.

How are you doing emotionally? are you doing things for yourself? Have you read For Men Only? by Shaunti Feldham

take care SD!

[NikB]

Long post alert!
--------------------
Hey ST - Vegas will be great!! I'm sure you'll have a blast. I'm not sure what lava thing you meant, but I think I mentioned Valley of Fire to you? If that was it - I can see why it sounded like it, but it's not actually a lava thing. They call it that because it looks like it's on fire, the way the light hits the bright red rocks. Here's more info on it (including a map):
http://www.desertusa.com/nvval/

It will be HOT this time of year and there's nothing out there, so make sure to take a lot of water with ya.

I was trying to think what touristy hang-out spots we enjoyed that were more than just drinking and gambling.

Actually I just remembered something, I posted a detailed review on another board and it's still in their archives. I'll pull out the highlights for you. (keep in mind it was 4 years ago though so things may be different now, Vegas changes so quick!)


(these are pulled straight from my old review)

Restaurants - good
* The Range in Harrah's - AWESOME steakhouse! We ate here the first night and were so impressed with the view, the food, the service, just everything. Very worth every penny. We had a nice view of the strip from our table, which I think they do as best they can, especially if you make early reservations.

* Samba Grill in the Mirage - another wonderful restaurant! This one's a Brazilian style BBQ. DH wasn't feeling adventurous and just got a steak, but it was delicious (I snagged a bite). I did the full "rodizio" experience where they come by with different selections, and I loved every one of them. Go with a hearty appetite though! I felt really wasteful when I didn't even get through half of the samplings of BBQ.

* We had a few other meals at places that I didn't pay attention to the names of (sorry!). The Mexican place in New York New York was tasty, though, and reasonably priced.

Restaurants - bad
* Buffet in Flamingo - yuck. We ate here once thinking it'd be a good breakfast, and it wasn't. We also didn't plan ahead well enough for Saturday night dinner and the only place we could get into in time for our show was this buffet. It was bad again (we had hoped dinner MIGHT be better). It isn't awful or anything, just everything is dry/overcooked, and nothing was really hot - typical bad buffet food. Lukewarm bacon and eggs, ewww, and then the next time, lukewarm green beans and (sadly, yes, lukewarm) salad.

Shows (I paraphrased these):
* Skintight and Zumanity - (I won't even paste in my review here because I think even THAT might be kinda offensive for you (tons of serious nudity). But I'll just say, probably avoid those, as they don't seem like you'd like 'em too much. )

* "O" Cirque du Soleil show - didn't go to this but heard it was really good. Had the stuff in it that I liked from Zumanity but the people were dressed.

Bars/Clubs:
* Studio 54 - by far our favorite. It's supposed to re-create the famous club. The music was a lot of fun - mostly familiar 70's and 80's stuff, and a very mixed crowd. The staff was also noticeably welcoming here, and they had the typical go-go dancers. There's a fun catwalk type area you can go to on the top to look down on all the action too. The drink prices and cover charges here were also significantly cheaper than the other clubs we went to.

* Risque - this one's in Paris. They're trying to make it a real "loungey" type feel but with a dance floor. I think we were the only married people and people over 25 in the place except this one couple who seemed to be trying to pick up a third person. It was OK, just not our thing. If you're willing to buy a $250 bottle of cognac you can go out on these really neat balconies overlooking the strip, though (that part looked neat though not worth the money). The music was funny in here too, it was current hip-hop type stuff but I swear they had somehow slowed it down - it was impossible to dance to. Maybe they were trying to encourage closer/slower dancing or something. We didn't seem to be the only ones having trouble, even among the younger crowd.

* Curve - this one had a little more mixed crowd than Risque, and the music was better. They had two different rooms with totally different music, which was kind of neat. They also had big lounge chairs in the non-VIP area that you could sit down on and relax. We got in free when I went to ask about the cover - the guy at the door just said "Only two of you? C'mon in" - pretty cool.

* Shadow in Caesar's - this is just a bar, no dancing, but very fun!!! We only dropped in because we happened to be walking by, and were pleasantly surprised. There are two large screens behind the bar that have ladies dancing behind them (thus the name). The bartenders are very fun and friendly, and made every drink pour into a show. They also did choreographed bottle juggling type shows every so often. The atmosphere was fun but not in an obnoxious way. There's also no cover (at least during the week).

* Rumjungle - we happened to be in the area during the day so I can't comment on the crazy nightclub part of it, but I hear this one gets really packed. During the day it's actually a surprisingly quiet and interesting place to drop by for a drink or lunch. Even on a Saturday afternoon it wasn't that busy. There are walls of water with fire in the middle, and a really different atmosphere - glad we dropped by there. We didn't eat but they had a reasonably good looking lunch menu focusing on tropical type foods, and modestly priced. We saw a few of their lunches and they looked pretty good.

* Coyote Ugly - yuck, yuck, yuck. Avoid at all costs!!! I thought the movie this bar is based on was rowdy but fun so maybe the bar would be too - and the funny thing is a lot of people recommended it. Everyone in our group of friends who is planning a trip to Vegas plans (or planned) to stop here and see it. Not worth it!! It was a $20 cover charge apiece in spite of them advertising that women get in free, then once we got inside the place was both tiny and absolutely packed. We spent most of the time getting bumped into, spilled on, or yelled at by security for standing in the wrong place (never did figure out what the right place was, other than outside!) The supposed talented bartenders you can't even see due to the major crowding, except one lady who spends all her time trying to get the women in the bar to take their bras off. I can't even figure out who this club MIGHT appeal to.

* Piano bar in Harrah's - sorry, I forget the name, but it was a fun place to stop off and relax for a bit! The piano players were good and alternated between funny and serious/regular songs.

Other stuff:
* Star Trek experience in the Hilton - kind of expensive but it was fun even for a non-trekkie like myself. It's one of those motion/movie rides, but it's done really differently from what you usually see, which we enjoyed. The casino is pretty unique here, and there's also a museum part that's separate from the ride. In the museum I liked their "timeline" which goes back into history but also forward about 2000 years - interesting to see what the author's concept of the future is.

* Siegfried and Roy secret garden and dolphin habitat - neat! We didn't have much desire to see this show but my grandma always wanted to and is really sad she never got to go (she's too frail now). So I went to the garden part to take pictures of the tigers for her, and ended up really enjoying it. It's a sort of small zoo within the Mirage, plus a pool of about 13 dolphins. The Mirage was gorgeous too - if we can get a good rate we'd stay there next time.

* Bellagio fountain - I know a long time favorite and very fun to watch! Definitely worth seeing.

* Mirage volcano - another of the typical freebies to visit. It's pretty neat, if you're close by. You can also go right inside the front door of the Mirage to check out one of their white tigers for free.

* Stratosphere - we took the elevator to the top but skipped the rides. I got really, really queasy up there!! They say it's around 110 stories up. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but it was pretty darn high. You can see the whole strip and from the other sides you can see different areas around Vegas. I didn't realize how high it really was until we saw the whole strip from a distance as we were driving - definitely dwarfs everything else in the area. The whole thing shakes when the roller coaster goes by above you, and your ears'll pop in the elevator at least once. It was neat to see.

* Statues in Caesar's - quite cool! One of the sets of statues in the giant mall at Caesar's actually put on a show, I think once an hour. They're near the magic shop. You can spot them because they have gold sashes on, I think to hide the seams. We expected it to be silly but it was actually pretty neat, I'd say the animatronics part of it rivals Disney quality. The sky also changes from dawn to dusk so that's kind of neat.

* Other hotels - we walked through New York New York, Paris, the Venetian, and Mandalay Bay - all very fun to walk through.

* Wildlife walk in the Flamingo - another freebie, and of course we had to do it since we were staying there! There are lots of fish, some ducks, some penguins, and of course, flamingos. Probably more fun for kids but I enjoyed it too. We went to see the penguins several times just because I liked 'em.

* Hoover Dam - glad we went! It took longer than the 30 minutes estimated in all the travel guides, maybe because of the new security stuff. There's not much to really say about it other than if you have the time it's worth going to see.

* Valley of Fire - wow!! I wanted to see Grand Canyon but we just didn't feel like making the huge drive, so instead we went here. It was maybe an hour away. We kept driving through the middle of nowhere and then suddenly it turned into this beautiful area. It's basically a lot of different rocks shaped by winds and occasional water. It's a weird area – it looks like Mars or something. There are some various short hikes you can take but it was around 115 degrees the day we went, so we mostly did the driving tour. There are Indian petroglyphs all over the place that you can check out, some you can even see up really close. There have been something like 8 movies filmed here already, and they were actually filming one the day we were there. At first we thought it was some sort of small budget commercial or something, but then we actually saw several large production type trailers so we think it might actually be a movie. Pretty cool. You definitely want to take the full driving tour. There are a few turnoffs that are easy to miss but some of the neatest things to see are at the end of them. We took lots of gorgeous pictures. For those into this type of thing… on the way back to town DH was fascinated by the wide array of fireworks sold in the Indian reservation store. This is probably mostly only exciting for people who live in places that allow very few or no fireworks.. but it was pretty unusual for us since we're from California.

[S.T. _I Made It!]

wow Nikki! you should be a reviewer person or something!

yes, I meant the fire, not lava. oops. they're both hot.

thanks for finding that. When I would go to Vegas, I never in my mind could imagine doing all of that! wow. you guys were busy. I did get to go to studio 54 about 6 years ago I think. it was me and my sis, and I do vaguely remember it. The best place I went was the place in The Rio. but that was like 10 years or more ago. It was really cool though, they had huge screens everywhere with cameras filming everyone in the place, and it wasn't so major crowded either. It's cool that they don't close until like 5am too. I remember there was the most beautiful man I had ever seen that night and he was from Canada, and I was 21 and I sooooo wanted to kiss him. Well, I ended up getting a peck, which was cool cause I felt way intimidated by him he was so cute! I remember begging my mom to let me stay later, but she was tired, it was only 3in the morning too. haha. can't do that anymore!

Thank you again Nikki, and especially the warning on the naked shows and ugly place. I hope noone suggests them!!!

[SuperDad]

First of all, Nikki, your knowledge of Vegas is a bit scary!

ST, Thanks again for your input:

SD...Is it really easy to quote like that?

Yup, just use the " above and paste in between the bracketed quotes.

It sounds like you are being a friend to her, but not trying to be friends per say. Thanks for clarifying.

I am trying to be...well I am trying to be the best person I can while giving her the time and space she needs to get through her MLC. It is so hard, but that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

I think you may be right that she may have to really break off from you before she can come back. Sometimes people really do need a "knock in the head" before they wake up. But what is good is you DBing with her witnessing it. I think it's hard for people to have their spouse leave and then they find DB and try to DB, but it's difficult because their spouse isn't with them much.

As with everything, timing is everything. I am trying to wait at least another month as there is some stuff going on right now which could give her the knock she needs. If not, I will have to take some action to more her forward.

Can I ask what the D law in FL is?

Basically it is No Fault with "equitable division of assets" the possibility of alimony. Since my W has been at home for 10 years and we have been married for 15, I could end up having to split assets, giver her primary custody, and write her a check for 60% of my salary. Cool huh! At least it has the effect of making you want to work on your M REALLY HARD!

How are you doing emotionally? are you doing things for yourself? Have you read For Men Only? by Shaunti Feldham

At this moment, I am a mess. I have been snooping to try to find financial docs, etc. to give to L. What I have found has truely shaken me. Nevertheless, I will regroup and move on.
I am definitely king of GAL (except tonight). I have been using the time I have to really work on myself, do things I felt I couldn't before due to W's control issues, spend more time with the kids, and have taken up some old hobbies (training for a triathlon, playing my violin)

I will look into this book. I have been reading some things that I assume have similar themes about the Yin/Yang nature of our relationships and it is clear that I could have been a better partner for my W. On the other hand, her issues are DAUNTING!

Have a great weekend, SD

[S.T. _I Made It!]

Basically it is No Fault with "equitable division of assets" the possibility of alimony. Since my W has been at home for 10 years and we have been married for 15, I could end up having to split assets, giver her primary custody, and write her a check for 60% of my salary. Cool huh! At least it has the effect of making you want to work on your M REALLY HARD!

there did it work??? that really sucks. Of course if it was the other way around, the man leaving and the W trying to DB, then I'd say, good! I guess the laws really don't work all the time, because how does the law know if you were a horrible person and she didn't have any choice but to leave. But then how does it know if your trying so hard to become a better person and make things work and she doesn't give a care. It's really unfair.

Snooping can be a bad thing. it ultimately doesn't really tell us what we need to know, although I think in some instances it can be a good thing. I once snooped on H's phone to see he wrote "you are so gorgeous" to OW, a word he's never ever used with my name, not even beautiful, so that really really stung. still does a little, but it did make me get into perspective that I wasn't done yet...cause I think I might have started to slide a little around that time had I not seen that text.

I'm really sorry to hear your in a mess. I really contribute my strength during my sitch to Christ. I really feel that I would have been a mess and failed had I not had him to lean on.

I will pray for you tonight, for strength and encouragement.

[NikB]

ST - aw thanks!! I actually used to do movie and record reviews for the "teen" section of our local paper when I was in high school. I really have fun with it.

ST and Supderdad - haha yes, I do have too much Vegas knowledge.

Part of why we did so much is that we were there WAY too long, 6 days. We would've been ok leaving on day 3 and HAPPY to go by day 4, but we were meeting friends there on day 5 so we stayed. That's when we went to Hoover Dam and Valley of Fire though - at least had to get away from the strip for awhile! We're both kind of "on the go" all the time when we travel, trying to see and do everything, so that's part of it too. Only people I know who spent 8 days in Cancun and never went to the beach... Too much to see and do!

You're welcome for the warning on the nudie shows. I figured "Skintight" was probably obvious but "Zumanity" not so much. If they suggest Zumanity maybe you can steer them towards one of the other Cirque shows. They're really talented and it's amazing to watch, but Zumanity was just too much. I'm not easily offended by that stuff at all, but this was just... wow. I really enjoyed both shows, but don't think they'd be your thing at all. Zumanity it took me about an hour to pick my jaw up off the floor. One funny part I can share though - I had an empty seat next to me and at one point one of the male dancers (wearing nothing but an old fashioned metal tea-pot held on by a string... use your imagination... ) sat next to me and started flirting with me. It was clearly part of the show because a few of the dancers were doing it, but it was SO funny. The whole rest of the show he'd be on stage dancing and right in the middle of the act, he'd stop, run over to me, hold his hand up to his ear like a phone, wink, and mouth the words Call me!"

Somehow H got pulled on stage for the striptease in the middle of Skintight too. We must have had "embarass me" written on our foreheads.

I'd really be adament about steering them away from Coyote Ugly - that was the WORST place I've ever gone into, anywhere. My boss is a FREAK for Vegas, loves the drinking, the shows, the gambling - and he will rant for hours about how awful the 10 minutes he spent there were. So even guys don't like it. I thought H and the security guard were going to start fighting if the security guy didn't stop yelling at us - and apparently it hasn't gotten any better, my boss was just there a few weeks ago.

The piano bar was way fun though for nightlife, Studio 54 was great for dancing or people watching. The "statue" show at the Caesar's mall was very cool too, totally unexpected thing we ran into there.

Anyway... gotta run for now but have a great weekend if I don't check in again!

[SuperDad]

ST,
Good job with the quoting and thanks for the prayers, I think we all need them coming from every corner of the Earth for us and our families (including our S's who are in the most need of all). I pray for my W every time I can. Not to rediscover our M, but to find her path with heart. If that is with me, I will be ecstatic. If not, at least my children will have two balanced, loving parents and I will be out of limbo.
SD

[S.T. _I Made It!]

Nikki. wow. ya, I don't think I would feel very comfortable looking at a guy with just a teapot. wow. okay, and I'll definitely stand firm on the coyote ugly place. glad to know he just went a few weeks ago so it's not like they can say "oh, that was years ago..."

I remember the statues. That is pretty cool. I was fairly young the first time I saw it and we loved it.

I think the people we're meeting are into just walking down the stip hitting all the bars/slots and just seeing what's happening that night. Not really into just walking around aimlessly, but maybe it will be fun since there will be about 6 or 8 of us all together. This is sad, but I'm really kinda nervous. I'm just much more conserved than all of his friends. As far as I know, I'm the only christian- not that it makes me more conservative, but in general christians are more that way- so I'm just kinda nervous about how everyone is going to be partying and stuff and if I'm not getting drunk like everyone else, I guess I'm just assuming I'll feel awkward and different. But I KNOW I should use the ACT AS IF concept. plus, if everyone is drunk, who's gonna notice me anyways!

[S.T. _I Made It!]

thanks SD and your welcome. yes our WAS definitely need our prayers. You know, a counselor from church told me that before he got saved he was really getting into messed up things and what's ironic is that a few of his christian friends/family were actually praying for him to be miserable and that's actually what happened. he was miserable and it took him to get to that point to change his life around. So he told me to pray for my H to be miserable! isn't that crazy? I actually even prayed for my H's OW. I prayed that she would be surounded by Godly people and that her sin would be put to light and for her salvation, and also that she would be distracted from my H. But actually, God worked better, because it was my H who ended up deciding to end it, so HE got to make the decision not HER.

I try to pray for everyone on here everyday if I remember. I will definitely be praying for you two to reconcile. God HATES divorce. And satan would love to see your marriage ended and your family broken up. So have faith that God will bring your marriage back together and that this experience will not end at a loss but a renewed beginning.