need help to win back WAW

[NikB]

DaveJ - do you have any "rules" on the sep - as in, is it "time to figure ourselves out and we'll revisit in 3 months" type of thing? Or is it "separation before a D"? Subtle difference but there is a difference there. There's a book called "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" about "Controlled Separation." It tends to lean towards staying apart unfortunately, but it's nice in that it gives you some guidelines. I'd be cautious about giving it to her as it'll feel like control or pressure, but it might be a good read for you.

Hey you're in one of the top cities for meetup.com, that's cool! It's much more active than Craiglist. Check this page out:
http://www.meetup.com/cities/us/az/phoenix/newest/

What things are you interested in or have you been curious about? See if there are any meetups about it, and you could go. I know it's a little intimidating at first but I've gone to a number of meetups in my area and have really had a lot of fun. A few critical things to look for are make sure they aren't selling anything (some of the wine tasting ones are actually sales pitches for in-home wine purchase parties, for example). Also look at their recent events and see how they are rated, and if people are showing up to the events. Especially at first I'd recommend finding a pretty active group with large attendance - it can be scary enough going to a meetup the first time, but it's worse if no one else shows up.

That said - it's been a GREAT way for me to meet new people and do new things. I highly recommend it!

I see lots of them in Phoenix are singles ones, which can be tricky. I did join one and went to a few dinners and movies with the group - but it was very clearly labeled as NOT a dating group, just a "tired of waiting around for the phone to ring on a Friday night" group. Most of the people in the group were clearly not interested in any type of R, actually (many newly D'd and sooo not interested in dating). So you could try one of those if an event coming up appeals to you.

Here's more info about meetup:
http://www.meetup.com/tour/

And the page to register:
http://www.meetup.com/register/

And I posted the Phoenix "top" list above. I'd start on the right hand side with the "largest" groups to find ones that are more established. A special interest one is great if you have hobbies etc. Otherwise here are a few "general" ones that I thought looked intriguing:

Hiking and Activities (looks like they do a lot more than just hike!):
http://hiking.meetup.com/267/
There's a full moon hike next Tuesday and almost 40 people are planning to go... http://hiking.meetup.com/267/calendar/5752286/

And another hiking one:
http://weightloss.meetup.com/312/
Their next event is Saturday... maybe a good distraction while the wife/kids are away?

Happy Hour club:
http://socialnetwork.meetup.com/700/

Mingle and Munch Bunch:
http://diningout.meetup.com/315/
(this one keeps their info private so you have to get permission to be added to the group before you can see the calendar)

Another social networking one: (it says it's "active couples and singles" - kind of a weird title but they're highly rated)
http://couples.meetup.com/302/

And another social/friends one:
http://friends.meetup.com/206/calendar/
(their calendar is packed! Movies, breakfasts, rock climbing, concerts...)

How about a weekly movie matinee on Sundays?
http://movies.meetup.com/454/calendar/

And there's much more... just wanted to throw those ideas out there because I have had such good luck with meetup.com, and I know the site can be a little intimidating at first.

[NikB]

One more link - forgot they had this feature. Here's everything coming up in your area this week:
http://www.meetup.com/cities/us/az/phoenix/events/

[DaveJ]

NikkiB, thanks for the suggestions. Actually I just registered with a bunch of groups just this morning. Now I just gotta go do them. Moving out on Labor Day weekend. Uck! And I'm suppose to sneak out when the kids are napping. *sigh*

Had an anxiety attack during lunch. Not sure what the hell is going on. Just all of sudden felt really bad. Maybe I was thinking about everything a little and being anxious about the S. I was feeling great last night. I was little tuned down this morning. The phone session actually got me more down even though a lot of good information. Made me realize how much more tougher really this S is going to be than I ever imagined. I am hoping that the W will feel the same way when that happens and really miss me. If she almost cried when leaving at the airport then this should be a lot worse right? My primary love language is quality time and physical intimacy. So having this S is very very rough for me. Especially when we have been doing so well lately. Kissing, hugging, ILYs, no fighting, doing fun stuff together.... We were doing really well when we both tried. I wish she can just get over the resentment, open up, and really see that. Ah well, just have to get through this. I will survive.

[DaveJ]

Oh as to the question in regards to the S. She said she wants 30 days to think about things and then go from there. She will take time for herself. There is no seeing other people or anything like that. Although it may take longer. I rather it take longer than she makes an abrupt decision. I'm praying for patience on her part. I'm also hoping that if she feels there's no progress on her part, she would be open to something like Retrouville or this 4day BT based intensive therapy thing here that I heard has 80-90% success rate and supposedly people feel the marriage is 75% better. It's something based off the person that wrote The DNA of Relationships. Heck I would love to go now and I think it would do wonders for our R. But she isn't interested in doing that right now and you know how that goes.

[Dom R]

Dave... you're not using your head.

There's a lot of stuff in this post. Please have patience, and read through ALL of it, carefully. Don't write it off until you read all the way through it.



You know that there is an 80% divorce rate after separation.
How many of those do you think started so that one person could "see how they feel", or "get their head straight" ?

You are NOT a special case. Yes, you WANT to be. but your marriage is just like all those other ones.
Your wife is just like all those other ones.

If "giving her time in sepatation to think" was such a great idea... then why is there such a high divorce rate after separation?
It just makes no sense.

Maybe you're just trying to avoid the tough part of continuing to have to work on yourself all the time, if she is living in the house with you?
Do you figure that you can "relax" more, if you are living separated?

PS: Do you know that there are major legal ramifications, for both your claim in the house, AND your custody of your children, if you are the one to move out?

Dont Move Out.

Your wife is planning an "exit". I think you have accurately pegged your wife as a "walkaway wife", unlike some others who have posted here about their own wives.
she gave up on you, 3 years ago. It will take a lot more than 30 days to change her pre-set opinion of you, that has cemented itself over the last 3 years.

She wanted a divorce 3 months ago. she still wants one. She will still want one in 30 days.
Her mother will be able to pressure/"encourage" her to dump you even more, once you are living separately.

Dont Move Out.


Answer this question for yourself?

Why would she want you back after 30 days?
Why would her opinion of you in 30 days, be any better than it is of you today?

There was an ex involved but it's no longer an issue and it didn't get very far. Just some emotional infidelity (and couple kisses) that I have forgiven her and we moved on.

no, you moved on and ignored the problem. She stayed right where she was. The problem was still there, but since she didnt complain, you thought "everything was all right". (classic WAW/husband dynamic ). The important thing was not "for you to forgive her", it was for you to find out what she was missing, and give it to her from then on.


She doesnt want you now. She wont want you in 30 days.

You need to change how you treat her, and then stick with it.
she wont believe it, until you have been that way for a long time. She cant believe it, until she sees it on a regular basis.
She can't see it, if you are no longer living together.

Today W mentioned that she really wants to make things work but she's struggling. She says she has a hard time believing that I can just do an 180 just like.

THIS is what you should be working on.
Tell her that you understand how she wouldnt believe you can change. Ask her to postpone moving out for a few more months, (sleeping in separate rooms if she likes) and just watch how you treat her. (dont push for any commitments about "if you like what you see", blah blah. Just ask her to watch, and make her own opinion after more time has gone by)

If she is separated from you, she will be making her judgement on whether to come back, on your past. Do you think she will be coming back to you, based on your past treatment of her? I'm guessing "no".

you need to have a chance to show her a new future.

Not by pressuring or forcing her to cooperate with you, or trying to argue "look, i've changed!". but by showing her with your actions, every day, that you are different now.

You cant do that, if you are separated.

Dont Move Out.

[DaveJ]

I know if I don't move out it will definitely be harder for me to work on myself. When I see her there all the time it will be tough for me. Also, she will have anxieties and not able to just think on her own. I'm very certain that she will want a D immediately if I don't give her the space. Yes it would be nice not having to move out. But it's not a reality for me. She knows I have changed and she truly believe that. The only thing stopping us is her getting over her resentment, not whether I am treating her right. She can see that I'm treating her right in the past 3 months and has said so herself. It sure hasn't made any progress on her part.

We are not on bad terms. Despite her resentments she really loves and cares for me and I can tell. She is not being mean or vicious towards me. She is a very genuine and caring person. I am not worrying about the house or the kids. Everything will work out fine no matter what. She will not screw me over just like I'm not going to do the same thing to her. You have your opinions but I think I know my W better than anyone here.

As for the EA, it was her xBF. He's in Chicago. She sees no future with him. He's really a loser that can't even get his life together. It was really a superficial thing. She was vulnerable and he just swooped in. The kids is the most important thing to her. Sadly they come before me since they have arrived. But she will do what's the best for the kids (yeah I know, keeping the family should be it but....). We will work it out. You guys will think I'm insane but I will make sure my kids are taken cared of no matter what. I am not being an idiot when it comes to this despite what you think. My children comes first in this.

I will think on this a bit.... As I said, not moving out will not improve the situation. It just makes her resent me more. She really wants to see once I'm out if she would miss me and has feelings for me. Believe me it ain't gonna be fun with a 1.5 yr old and a 4 year old. She isn't going to get a sitter for anything. She'll be home most of the times. If I come by and give her a break once in a while, she might appreciate that. The kids are already driving her insane and that's when I'm doing everything I can to help her out.

I just need to detach and work on myself. Otherwise I cannot keep my sanity.

[DaveJ]

Is it a really bad idea to send her Michele's article on Children and Divorce and the article on Forgiveness? Or will that be seen as me applying more pressure? Just wish she would read them and realize what she's doing.....

[NikB]

Dave - I don't think you're being an idiot at all. I agree you're at the point where you probably don't have much choice on the separation. That's what happened with my H too - it was that or a D. I got him to go to MC (after begging/pleading, not so good..) - she was the one who talked him out of going straight for a D so the sep was actually better.

Absolutely DON'T share those articles with her. It's pressure, it's telling her she's wrong and you're right, it's more of trying to convince her to see things your way. The harder you push, the more she'll do to convince herself she's right.

[DaveJ]

Thanks NikkiB. That's what I needed. A voice of reason to set me straight. I didn't think I should and I didn't. Which is an improvement for me I guess. I was doing pretty good last night but I seem to be struggling a bit today. I blame Dom R for ruining my PMA. :P j/k I really need learn to control my thoughts. It seems when my mind start drifting and start thinking about the S and the R and everything it just overwhelms me. But if I keep it on something else I seem to be fine. I guess I will get better at it over time. Wish things aren't so hard....

You know, should I attempt to even ask my W if she'll reconsider the S? Maybe say if we can set rules and boundaries and establish space for her that maybe she'll reconsider? I doubt it though. I don't want that attempt end up push us backwards.... Maybe we do need the S for her to sort things out and for me to find myself and GAL..... I don't know....

[Sara]

DaveJ,

You are getting conflicting advice. That is because there is no clearcut right answer. No one can promise you that ANYTHING you do will save your marriage. It is totally up to you to do what you think and feel is best.

Before you make a final decision I think you should read what Handful of Rain posted not long ago.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1129117