Plank removed from eye, too late for WAW 3

[Not Much Left]

H
I would recommend you go. Yes, I believe it would cause bitterness. I left even though W was certainly the one who said leave. If I had not, I would be nowhere I believe.

C

[oldtimer]

--> ZAP ZAP ZAP (((Stew))) ZAP ZAP ZAP <--

Double whammy. How's that?

Sorry, I don't have time to check on other threads right now. Read Grasshopper's threads and you'll see most of what I'd say anyway.

[Heimlich]

It is NOT going to be fun to sit around and have these thoughts: "Oh, this is great. W loves me so much she even picked out THIS apartment for me to move into to get the h*ll out of her life."

Eesh, never even thought of this before you mentioned it. Doesn't fit me through the chest. I'm a wee bit confused by what you're saying. On the one hand, get out. Get out fast. OK, I've done that (well, in the process). So I ended up at the apt that my W initially found. To me, I don't care. I looked at 6 places today. I could afford 3 of them. The one that I took was the one that I liked the best and the best deal (other than blind luck, it was extremely unlikely I would have found the combo of neighborhood, cost, and space as this one). I see what you're saying about her pushing me out. It just doesn't feel like that. Maybe I'm too trusting, I don't know. I'm taking what she says at face value and not trying to read anything into it. Is it possible she got a tip from someone at work that this complex was having a great deal and decided to 'drop by'. Sure. But what's the point of worrying about that? I know she doesn't want to feel like the bad guy, that makes sense to me and I know you're hinting at the OM. As I sit here now, I can say that I know I'm not going to be happy if she sees him, but beyond that have no idea how I'll really feel.

In DBing turns, I've been slothful in the past. She looked at something. The next day I looked at a bunch of others and ended up liking the one she saw (she didn't actually look at the apt, just got the price and floorplan and it was on my list to check out anyway). This really doesn't bother me. Let's assume she's trying to get me out of the house. That's fine, as I mentioned in my previous post, I'm ready to get out as well. I would have found something this Sunday anyway.

That doesn't mean you need to close the space by taking her up on all her offers.

I've no intention of asking her on dates with me or the girls or over for a candlelight dinner. We're going to see each other frequently because of our girls. Eventually it may move beyond that, but I don't anticipate that being the case at first or ever, really. I'd like that, of course, but don't expect it.

At the very least, you will have some very rough patches alone in your apartment.

Yep. I'll just have to deal with the loneliness the best I can. Fortunately, I've always been OK by myself. My fear is that I don't want to close myself off again from people, like I've done over the last few years. In my head I know that in a month, I'm going to be sitting in my undies and eating cheetohs wondering what the hell happened. I'll vent here (for those of you with weak stomaches, I'll refrain from sartorial details).

Think about decorating the girls room as a wonderful new Daddy-girls only adventure. It is a room. It is an adventure. It will be about you and them. You can do it.

I've thought about this. I've been involved in all of our decorating decisions for the house, so I know that I can put the girls' room together for them. I'm going to figure out the rest of the apt on my own. The girls' room I'm conflicted on. Yes, it would be a fun thing for me to do with the girls -- and I'm thinking of painting/stenciling the walls with them (not the W). But (I know, you hate when I use that word), she wants to be involved in helping them to move in. I know that I can handle it without any trouble, but if I cut her out of this with the girls am I just hurting her feelings (and my girls) to get extra "space" that I don't feel that I need in this instance? I feel damned if I do and damned if I don't. Part of me wants to do what you describe, part of me thinks my girls will be happier with the move if my W is involved. Girls win over my discomfort.

I guess the other thing nibbling at the back of my mind is that she knows the door is open (see last week's conversations). If she starts making overtures to help, and I cut her off at the knees, is that just going to make things worse? I also think her love language is acts of service, so if I don't let her help and she's starting to feel more open toward a R with me, by refusing am I shutting the door on her?

You have given her enough space so that she can be nice.

C'mon OT, gimme some validation

Serious question for you. I like my home here in newcomers, would I be better off moving over to separated?

BD

[Heimlich]

One key piece of info on the apartment -- it's not the usual price and was likely to jump up by 100 to 200 bucks/month in a day or two. That contributed to the urgency.

Regarding moving out, depends on the situation. I posted a day or two ago my reasons for moving out. I could have fought to stay here and could have barely afforded it. Didn't want to just get by and also didn't really want to stay here. Wanted a place that would be just mine (well, and my girls').

BD

[oldtimer]

Heimlich,

Quit trying to defend yourself, you don't have to.

This is my point:

-- it is better for both of you if your space is cleanly your space.

W can bond with you on other stuff. Keep your place safe and clean from her influence.

BTW, *that was validation*. Most people can't give a WAS space to be nice for a very long time.

[Gone Dancin']

I did ask her to help me with the girl's room. We're going to get bunk beds for them this weekend. Once we get those in, we'll figure out how to best use the space. She wants to be involved in that and I don't have a problem with it. Again, her request, not mine.

This is a completely contradictive statement. You said you asked her, but then said it was her request. I'm absolutely lost here, Heim. Before OT even mentioned you should just do it with the girls (kind of a "Date with Dad" type of an activity), I was going to say the same thing. OT is also right in that you shouldn't take up every activity or offer W gives. Maybe tell her "Okay, thanks. I'll definitely think about it." Show her you're not needing/wanting her involved with everything but declining on occasion. This is detaching, my friend. I know -- easier said than done, but I know you can do it.

part of me thinks my girls will be happier with the move if my W is involved. Girls win over my discomfort.

Instead of ASSuming this is what the girls would be happier with, why don't you ask them? Maybe they would prefer or enjoy doing it with just you. Who knows until you actually ask them? Also, if the girls do say they want W to be involved, this makes asking the W to help ALL about the girls and NOT about you at all. It is a win/win for you, and if they didn't want her to help, you could simply tell W, "Regarding decorating the girls' room, I really want some Daddy/daughter time with the girls in doing this. I think it would be a great time for me to begin bonding with the girls in a situation without you around, since there will be many more of those to come. I hope that makes sense to you and you understand." I'm sure she would be completely okay with this, and respect it. After all, it is her choice to separate -- she needs to understand that she can't have her cake and eat it too.

I guess the other thing nibbling at the back of my mind is that she knows the door is open (see last week's conversations). If she starts making overtures to help, and I cut her off at the knees, is that just going to make things worse?

Only if you deny EVERY offer or maybe even the majority of the offers. Heim, if she really wants to reinvest in an R with you, she's going to likely be forthcoming with it. Also, like OT said, it isn't going to happen overnight. And, like you said, she knows the door is still open. She's not going to think you're cutting her off at the knees simply because you'd prefer to do things once in a while without her. That's part of separating, and she has to understand that. If it makes you feel more at ease, simply tell her that you need to do things without her now and then in order to adjust to the new living situation, and for the separation to be helpful, beneficial, and meaningful. She will respect and understand this, esp if you do it in a sincere manner. Be happy, confident, cool, and calm about it. Show her that you are strong, but still caring.

Hope this helps, brotha -- I still think you're struggling quite a bit on this notion of detaching (though it is a pretty gray area overall).

Later dance buddy!

GD

[oldtimer]

As for moving, move when you are ready. You'll know because it will be both too hard and too tiresome to keep dealing with the stuff that every Newcomer goes through.

But, why move to separated? Your W is having an A. Infidelity is probably a better fit.

[NikB]

In my head I know that in a month, I'm going to be sitting in my undies and eating cheetohs wondering what the hell happened. I'll vent here (for those of you with weak stomaches, I'll refrain from sartorial details).

Write yourself a new reality and work towards that! (unless you really like that image...)

[oldtimer]

Excellent suggestion.

[Heimlich]

OT (and everyone),

Thanks, I didn't mean to sound defensive or anything. I think better when I write something out, so a lot of me responding to you is getting my thoughts down and out of my head for me to look at here in the future. You hit on some things that I think but don't focus on. Responding here clarifies things in my head of why or why not I feel the way I do.

Quote:
In my head I know that in a month, I'm going to be sitting in my undies and eating cheetohs wondering what the hell happened. I'll vent here (for those of you with weak stomaches, I'll refrain from sartorial details).


Write yourself a new reality and work towards that! (unless you really like that image...)

Nikki, That did sound pretty bleak, wasn't intended that way. I figure I might have one or two nights when I have a bit of a pity party for myself. Don't plan on that being the bulk of my life. Anyway, I like sitting in my undies eating cheetohs

I've found a gym I'm going to join, though there's one other I still want to look at. Going to start rugby in a few weeks and dance class continues for another 5 or 6 weeks. I'll be getting out and about.

Oddly enough, what's bumming me out about moving is that I won't be able to grill. Against the law to grill on a balcony. Though I might get a small hibachi and hope no one notices.

-- it is better for both of you if your space is cleanly your space.

W can bond with you on other stuff. Keep your place safe and clean from her influence

She only gets to touch the girls room. I'm really looking forward to being able to put my stuff wherever the hell I want to. Getting to GD's point, we asked the girls tonight (took them to dinner) and they'd like their mom's help. I've generally got a pretty good finger on their pulse, but you're right, GD, I shouldn't assume.

My statement was contradictory. What I meant was that I had asked for her help about picking out a bunk bed and maybe a dresser or something for the girls' room; not to decorate the room (though I did assume correctly that they would want mama to help with that).

Also, if the girls do say they want W to be involved, this makes asking the W to help ALL about the girls and NOT about you at all.

THis is what I expected to happen and it happened. All good, though I did do it back-asswards.

Only if you deny EVERY offer or maybe even the majority of the offers. Heim, if she really wants to reinvest in an R with you, she's going to likely be forthcoming with it. Also, like OT said, it isn't going to happen overnight. And, like you said, she knows the door is still open. She's not going to think you're cutting her off at the knees simply because you'd prefer to do things once in a while without her. That's part of separating, and she has to understand that. If it makes you feel more at ease, simply tell her that you need to do things without her now and then in order to adjust to the new living situation, and for the separation to be helpful, beneficial, and meaningful. She will respect and understand this, esp if you do it in a sincere manner. Be happy, confident, cool, and calm about it. Show her that you are strong, but still caring.

GD, thanks for doing my thinking for me I really needed to hear something like this.

But, why move to separated? Your W is having an A. Infidelity is probably a better fit.

That's in the back of my mind as well. Of course, legally, it's an A, in reality, not sure it is at this point. Regardless, I'm still chewing on this one a little (OK, a lot) and don't know which way I'm going to go if I find out, for certain, that this is true. My operating assumption at the moment is that, at a minimum, she's going to see him fully once we separate, if she isn't already.

Hope this helps, brotha -- I still think you're struggling quite a bit on this notion of detaching (though it is a pretty gray area overall).

Definately helps and this detaching thing is a bit like I always imagined limbo to be back when I was Catholic. All gray and hazy, no clear edges, and no clear idea what boundaries were where. Think I'm heading in the right direction, finally, though.

And thanks for the validation, OT. I really could feel it in your post, just trying to get out some more of that humor of yours. I'll keep trying -- ZAP!

Took the girls to see the outside of the apartment after dinner. They're a little nervous, as expected, but we're both reassuring them that we're going to see them a lot (I'll see them anywhere from 9 to 12 days a week; my W 7 or more) and that if they ever want to see the other parent, all they have to do is ask. They're excited about the bunk beds, which is kind of funny. Also excited that they have a bathroom attached their room and won't ahve to walk down the hall to pee in the middle of the night.

You folks rule. Thanks again.

BD