New and confused

[Puddle]

Thanks, folks.

Can I just point out the absurdity of your H whispering under the covers like a 14 year old teenaged girl afraid her Dad is going to find out she's talking to her boyfriend? I can see how it would upset you, but that's rather pathetic.

Thanks for that, Heimlich. It helps me so very much to look at this with an eye for absurdity, even a bit of humor. Even some of the things that almost kill me when he says them seem funny later. Like when we went to dinner and he immediately told me he feels strange about spending money "outside the family," then followed that up a minute later with, "You seem glum, and you're not eating. Are you on a diet?" So thanks for the "pathetic" part; it helps.

I guess what you have to figure out is how you are going to enforce this boundary.

I hadn't thought of that, Kat, but to be honest, if I asked for that and he agreed, I believe he'd respect it. Of course I'd have to figure out before I asked what I'd be willing to do if he didn't.

It seems kind of silly when I lay it out: Don't talk to OW in bed? Don't talk to OW while you're at home, period? Don't talk to OW when we're both at home? Don't talk to OW after 10 pm? Don't let me catch you talking to OW at home? Does texting count? I obviously have a lot more thinking to do.

This morning I was cheery and he was curt. He knew I was mad last night (first time he's seen that since the bomb), and his attitude this morning was typical after an interaction like that. Tonight's his night to go out, and if we didn't have a contractor coming to the house tonight I'd expect not to see him before bedtime. I expect it to be awkward, but I'm going to need to be prepared to discuss it calmly if he brings it up, and to stay positive with him either way.

In my mind last night I was saying things to DH like, "How bout we agree not to talk at home to anyone we're sleeping with?" Not the direction I want to go, obviously!

And thanks, Kat, for sharing your experience. That sounds absolutely awful, and I can imagine the relief you felt when he left.

I think me setting this kind of boundary is the kind of thing that may make him so uncomfortable that eventually he'll leave. If he's going to go, I'd hate for him to do it with the attitude, "You drove me to it" instead of "I just have to go." Does that make sense? Of course, if this turns out to be something I really have to put my foot down about, then not clearly setting that boundary with him would be bad for me. Also no good.

So when, exactly, does one's PMA get so strong that it can't be destroyed in a second by something the spouse does?

[Heimlich]

It seems kind of silly when I lay it out: Don't talk to OW in bed? Don't talk to OW while you're at home, period? Don't talk to OW when we're both at home? Don't talk to OW after 10 pm? Don't let me catch you talking to OW at home? Does texting count? I obviously have a lot more thinking to do.

Puddle,

As everyone has, rightfully, banged on me today, let me throw this at you: what advice would you give someone else if you saw this elsewhere.

I think a fair boundary would be that he not speak to her in front of you, but even then, bringing it up might be worse than just ignoring it as much as you can.

As everyone has said to me, he's going to talk to OW. There's nothing you can really do to stop it. You have to decide if your boundary is I can't do this if you're seeing someone else. If you can continue to focus on your M through DBing, then bringing it up probably isn't a good idea.

BD

[bar]

Puddle!

I'm living with the phone thing as well. H texts all the time and sometimes I see him, but I reckon he phones when I'm out of the house. He hides his phone, like some precious treasure, in the house, in the car.

Once, I said, couldn't we have a day out together without her? (Meaning the phone he was tucking away under his car seat.)That's all I said. I didn't carry on to argue or explain how I felt, as he knows damn well how I feel. He's been fairly considerate about it since.

(If I could only get my hands on it!)

take care

[Puddle]

Yeah, Heimlich, what I'd probably say is they're going to do what they're going to do, so be ready for it (the surprise element was bad for me) and don't react. I'm irritated with myself for losing my cool, but I'm trying to remind myself that it was the first slip up I've made (in my book) and I'm allowed a couple. Damn, I was doing so well!

And my boundary is clearly not "if you're seeing someone else." I'd like discretion, which he's been giving me. It's not his fault I walked in there looking for the phone---he wasn't trying to throw it in my face, though it felt like it.

I reacted emotionally, and my reaction clearly did not serve to bring him closer to me. It just reminded him of another thing he hates: me getting mad and walking around loudly.

Normally (ha!) in this situation, I'd apologize later for my reaction. Since this is all new ground, I don't know what to do. Apologizing to him for anything right now seems absurd. Any advice?

Sounds like you're feeling ganged up on, Heimlich. I hope you're able to take it all FWIW and in the good spirit it's meant. Thanks for writing.

[Puddle]

Hey bar!

Imagine the day when you're going out with H and you say, "Did you forget your phone?" and he says, "No, I'm just not bringing it today." How nice would/will that be!

I'm just so irritated with myself for giving him something to be irritated with me about! I've got to find a way to stop beating myself up.

One more thing: When I checked my email this morning I noticed some old messages were highlighted again, which I didn't do. My DH is a very technical guy---he can read my email any time he chooses---technical enough to not leave such obvious traces behind. The thought (I can't imagine he really would, but who the hell knows these days?) that he's reading my email, or worse, that he's found me on this site, terrifies me. Would you guys ask if you were me (about the email, not this site)?

[bar]

Puddle!

I pray for that day, I really do.

I'm concerned about my email/this site too. As far as I know H can't log onto this pc, since he wiped his stuff off when he got one. However, he is more tech than me, so for that reason I wouldn't trust him. I know he hasn't got time to snoop on me but I'm very careful.

Stop beating yourself up NOW. It's not your fault it's his fault, he took a risk.

I think you can password protect access to you email but don't know any more than that. Also I set up an email with yahoo which is password protected and I'm assuming he can't open that?

take care

[Puddle]

Thanks bar. I need to get my head up.

I'm realizing that what's keeping my stomach in knots is the fear that DH will leave. I've thought about it rationally and reached the conclusion that he may have to leave if he's ever going to come back, but feeling like it might be imminent, and that I've done something to push him there, scares me silly. I'll just have to go right on through it (can't go over it, can't go under it...) and come out the other side. But I hear in my head, "Oh no, please let me go back and change that." Fear fear fear.

I feel like the lion from Wizard of Oz.

[bar]

Yes, they may have to leave if they are ever to come back. That's scary too, because they might not come back. If my H came back then I suspect the real work of saving the M would begin. I also fear that he will find another OW.

I feel like the wicked witch of the North!

[S.T. _I Made It!]

I did the same thing about the boundaries on the phone.

I believe you should take the time this week, or this weekend to talk to your H. Tell him you wanted to talk to him about some important things and when would be a good time for him to do that. Then when you bring it up tell him that you were very shocked about the phone conversations he had the other night. You realize that this is something that really hurt you and you would appreciate his respect on this issue. You would love for him to continue living here and that you don't want him to be out of the childrens lives sooner than you need to, but out of respect for you and the children you would like for him to please keep all contact with OW out of your home. and then ask him if he thinks that is a reasonable request that he can do. or you could even ask him that first. ask him, what he thinks is reasonable or acceptable for him to do in regards to contacting OW in your home. He obviously knows it's something he shouldn't do since he was hiding under the covers. <yes, now we can tell how messed up they are and how it's just like a puppylove thing all about hormones messing with their heads and it's not real.>

I said almost the exact same thing to my H. and as far as I could tell, he had the contact outside the home. If us LBS are going to stand for our M, we do need to set boundaries.

of course, definitely figure out what the consequence will be if he doesn't want to comply.

Yes, it is scary to think they may not come back, but just because they are out of the house doesn't mean your hope is lost. you always have hope and a chance to reconcile.

But I believe part of regaining their love is becoming confident. I'm assuming that your probably not as confident as you once were? Confidence is one of the biggest factors that guys find attractive. So we have to be direct, consistent, and unwaivering.

let us know what you decide to do

[Heimlich]

Sounds like you're feeling ganged up on, Heimlich. I hope you're able to take it all FWIW and in the good spirit it's meant. Thanks for writing.

Yeah, but in a good way. Kindof like an intervention, forcing me to confront a reality I already knew and understood, but didn't want to admit to myself (though my joke about banging someone in a full sized bed WAS just a joke). Hurts, but I'll be better off in the long run.

You mention the fear of him leaving. One thing that I came to realize, and I posted this to BrokenMarriage earlier today, is that in some sense they are already gone. If they physically move out, it's scary, but it's also an opportunity for both of you to grow. And, as ST says, it doesn't end the hope of reconciliation.

I really think that my fear of my W leaving contributed to where I am today. I was constantly worried that she would leave me. Instead of focusing on making myself a better person, I focused on her and constantly trying to gauge her temperature toward me. Then, once I found DBing (after the ILBNILWY speech), I had a hard time with the whole non-talking thing. I'm kicking myself for stopping reading about relationships when things started to get better back in January.

It's a supreme act of mental judo, but you've got to push toward that point where you still care about him and the R, but it's in the back of your mind. You've got to make yourself happy and become more like the person your H married, only better. I'm mostly there today. It feels pretty good, but it's also kind of scary. For the first time in almost 17 years, I can really begin to see a future without her in it. Parts of it have a certain appeal. I know deep down that I don't need her in my life, that I want her in my life. Currently, that want is still there, albeit there would be a lot of struggle to get to a place where we could be good again. It would be worth it, but it'd be painful. However, really feeling that "you know what, I really DON'T need her to have a happy, fulfilled life" is liberating. I relied too much on her and our M to define who I was. I need to work on defining me again. It's a heck of a ride, but it's the one we're on and we may as well enjoy it as best we can. Like anything in life, there's going to be a lot of joy, pain, and laughter along the way.

I know that's a lot about me, but I hope you can see the points I'm trying to make to you through it.

Anyway, it is all about me, right?

BD