Trying to set those goals!

[NikB]

I also think that I need to be careful of my 180s. Since his first assumption was I was avoiding him (good call on his part since that was part of my motivation), he will probably believe that any 180s I do are reactionary and not self motivated.

GREAT that you see this, Agent99.

I did so many 180s at first (all reactionary) that I think H thought I lost my mind. He said something about it seeming like I was "scrambling" to fix everything that has been wrong, and he didn't like it, it came across as a ploy to get him back more than real changes. Now, the real ones have stuck and the others (that weren't "me") have gone by the wayside... but I sure wasted a lot of energy on reactionary 180s.

Why can't you rent a motorcycle and go on a road trip?

[Trixi]

Why can't you rent a motorcycle and go on a road trip?

I don't know how to drive a motorcycle. Last summer was the first time I had ever been on the back of a motorcycle for more than 5 minutes.

One thing that I REALLY WANT to do, (but we agreed not to spend money) is to buy a light used trailer.

When I told my daughter that he was going camping and I was jealous, she said that she would love to go camping with me. It might not work out for us since she works two jobs now, BUT, I would love to do that.

Maybe once I have a couple deals in escrow I'll buy one. Wishful thinking.

[NikB]

Since he wants to feel totally broken up, doesn't this idea fly in the face of what he wants?

Hmmm...

Well, it's not really your responsibility to "make" him feel a certain way, so try to keep that in mind. But with that said, it's a tough one - choosing between keeping the positive connections going vs. stepping back completely. I think it might be good to test the waters a bit, think of something fun and different to do and then invite him to go (and don't be too upset if he says no, just brush it off.. and go do whatever it is anyway!).

Since you don't know how to ride, you're right, that wouldn't really work so well... maybe there's something else though.

Can you take motorcycle lessons somewhere?? That might be fun!

[my3sons]

OK, YES you can tell him he ruined your shoe even if he didn't--you could say "squashed."

Motorcycle lessons--why not??!! If you do find some and you want to, sign up. Then you will have your REASON (not "excuse") to look for your chaps and helmet. And ask if he knows where they are, etc. When he asks why you need them, tell him about the lessons.

[Trixi]

maybe I'll do lessons some day in the far off future.

I don't have the confidence in myself right now to think that I won't crash and hurt myself. And I know that when I am scared, I *do* choke, so best not to tempt fate.

My gut reaction to asking him out is that I chased him when we were dating. He never had to be the one planning something. Either *I* would plan something or we would collaborate. I think it's time for him to get to be the pursuer of me.

Yeah, this late in the game it's probably too late. BUT, if he is ever going to appreciate my value, he is going to have to do some work and not have it all handed to him. Staying connected enough that he would consider asking me out is going to be the tricky part.

[Trixi]

OK, YES you can tell him he ruined your shoe even if he didn't--you could say "squashed."

Good one!

Motorcycle lessons--why not??!! If you do find some and you want to, sign up. Then you will have your REASON (not "excuse") to look for your chaps and helmet. And ask if he knows where they are, etc. When he asks why you need them, tell him about the lessons.

OMG, I just had the best idea. Well, maybe not "the best" but last week I stopped by a friend of mine's work. She rides motorcycles with her fiance'. She was telling me how they were going out for a weekend trip. I BET she knows all sorts of guys that ride; where to learn, etc.

AND, it would actually be plausible that I would go and do something with her and her friends. (Unlike if I "all of a sudden" randomly hooked up with someone to ride on the back of their bike.)

Hmmmmmmm.........

[NikB]

Perfect!!!

[my3sons]

If it sounds like fun, go for it. GAL.

One other possible way to go, once you have an actual need for the gear:

TM: Please return my motorcycle chaps and helmet.

Don't be coy about not knowing where they are when you know he took them. And don't be the least bit curious why he took them. H: "Oh, sorry. I grabbed my stuff and I didn't realize your stuff was in there too." 99: "Whatever. Just drop my gear back here before Saturday, OK?"

When HE asks what you need them for, tell him you are riding with your friend (by name). That doesn't sound like you're dating or trying to make him jealous--just trying to have fun.

[Dom R]

She's "letting" him slip away?

by "letting", I mean "not taking any serious action about it".
obviously, she cant "control him". but that doesnt mean there's nothing she could do to attempt to nudge his course a bit.

...
Trick her into the bedroom, push her down on the bed by whatever means necessary, even if she resists..

if i wrote "by whatever means", I didnt mean actual force. (and most women arent capable of more physical force than neccessary.

and there's a big difference between someone saying "i'm not in the mood", and "stop right now".

I didnt mean to suggest doing stuff over a "stop right now".
what I wrote was more along the lines of "help him get in the mood".


Nikki: I really believe that, if this is something that he is looking for, that it would be a positive thing for agent99 to do it. and the way he was behaving and talking, it may be the case.

and I repeat what I said about "1-2 days".
peoples' minds can be more easily changed, before their behaviour becomes a habit, or expected by themselves.
it takes 1-2 weeks for something to become a habit.

To Agent99:

Yeah. I guess I hold out some weird thought that if he really wanted to make sure we felt broken up, all he would have to do is say he was seeing someone.

you'd think that. but if you read all the accounts of infidelity.. almost without exception, they try to keep it a secret, until they are confronted point-blank with irrefutable proof of what they are doing.

Since his first assumption was I was avoiding him (good call on his part since that was part of my motivation), he will probably believe that any 180s I do are reactionary and not self motivated.

since he commented on your behaviour.. you now have an opportunity to change it to be more positive towards him, and be seen as responsive to what he said to you.

My gut reaction to asking him
out is that I chased him when we were dating. He never had to be the one planning something. Either *I* would plan something or we would collaborate. I think it's time for him to get to be the pursuer of me.

Ohhh.. well thats important to know.

But right now, he has no motivation/inclination to chase you.
Are you prepared to be ignored by him at that level for the next few months?
If you are, then ok. if not...I still think this week for you, is a tipping point. It's going to determine how things are between you for the next few months.

If you want to bring up that you have noticed the riding gear is gone, you can do both at once.

"[some kind of nice phrasing of...] I noticed the bike riding gear is not where I thought it was. That reminded me of how much I enjoyed bike riding. How about taking me on a ride this weekend?
(and possibly when/if he turns you down)
well, i'd still like my gear back: I'll probably go with friends then; i DO miss riding"

worse case: he turns you down, you get your gear back, you know that he is not going to do any kind of dating stuff with you for the next few months, and you leave him alone from then on.

personally, I hope that you try it and it works out better for you, though.

[NikB]

Dom -

From your posts:
Dont take no for an answer. back him up against the bed, stick your hand down his pants, do whatever you have to, to get him "ready", and on his back (either the floor or the bed, whatever works) "anything" except asking him that is. Tell him to lay down. Push him down. Anything but "ask". You're in control this time: dont "ask"....

<snip>

and if he's normally a "1 minute man" and you know he wont outlast you even when you are "warmed up"... then again.. get him on his back, then demand that he "take care of you" in other ways. I'm guessing that after some initial resistance...if you stay forceful, he'll cave. Not "abusive" forceful... just "i know what I want and you're going to give it to me" forcefull.

<snip>
it's all about attitude. Psych yourself up. If it helps, remember that you have biblical backing for his: you are ENTITLED to sexual satisfaction from his body. Now go TAKE IT!

These are the parts that really jumped out at me and prompted my response. Really... I know this is a great fantasy thing but it sounds a heckuva lot like rape to me. If he still lived at home and was still "waffling" then maybe, but he's moved out, potentially has slept with other women, said he doesn't want sex...???

Might be a great time to buy a vibrator, take care of YOURSELF, and "accidentally" leave it out somewhere he might catch a glimpse of it, though.

I agree that "if this is something he is looking for" it might work out as a good thing - but the downside potential is really, really big (especially the possible self-esteem/self-respect hit - something to consider, Agent99).

In my case part of why I DID continue the sex was that it was a problem for a long time in our M and I wanted to "show" H that really, the problem (health related) WAS fixed and we could in fact have a normal healthy sex life. But even THEN I regret some of it, it was pretty degrading to myself to be doing that after he left (even if I did enjoy it). Some of the times when he was clearly "courting" me then yes maybe, but not the times when I pushed him into it.

About the asking him to take you out riding - maybe you can do a little of both. Arrange to go with your friends, and then invite him to go if he'd like. Be prepared not to get upset if he says no - if he says yes, you could always ask for a ride with him either now, or when the time comes.