When your H died, you had a lot of emotional investment in him, the R and his care. I see BB being invested in her pets, with me as a H but a H so she can have her pets.
Lil Oh, Lou... don't kid yourself about this. OK, she will fall apart. Think how wonderful I was, how nice I was to her, praise me to the hilt, then do what I said, throw money at every problem she has.
I know you were devastated when your H died so will listen to what you said about your situation and experiences.
BB and her mother didn’t have a good R before her mother’s death. It was only after MIL was in the extended nursing and rehabilitation center that BB started to act like a loving daughter. Before, BB was stand-offish and didn’t visit her mother that often. I went more than BB did.
When MIL died, I had few regrets and almost no sadness. I did most of what I could when MIL was alive. Same thing happened with BB’s uncle.
What bugs me is why all the praise and sadness after someone is dead and treat them poorly or with hold affection when they are alive.
I am sure you did all you could for your H before he died. The way I see things, that is what you should do and “all you can do.”
Maybe I have some of that detachment disorder Mr. HW has.
Lou, thinking about these last couple of posts of yours... do you think that BB loves you? What specifically does she do to let you know that she loves you? When was the last time she did something that you interpreted as a message of love?
I'm wondering if the biggest ache in your heart comes from feeling that BB does not love you. Not just sexually-- but at all. That she just keeps you around for repairs, paying bills, taking her out for fast food, etc.
One might ask (and some here have asked you from time to time) why stick around with someone who doesn't seem to care for you? But given your background, it would be very hard to walk away from a place where you once felt loved, not being sure you would find love elsewhere, kwim? You're attached to BB, but it's like the little chimp in the experiment who clung to the false mother made of wire and fur...
Yes, I know that if you asked her, BB would say she does love you, but what has she DONE to show it?
... do you think that BB loves you? Yes, she does, said so many times. I can say I love her in an odd, “responsibility” way. What specifically does she do to let you know that she loves you?
I don’t know if it is the kind of love I value, but she does put her foot on mine for a couple of minuets when we are in bed. Sometimes she puts her arm around me for a few minuets, then turns around and goes to sleep. Then she wants me to hold her but no making out.
[/b] When was the last time she did something that you interpreted as a message of love? [/b] A real discernable love message to me or a message she didn’t like the distance between us?
Lil, I can say what ever message she tries to convey to me, I don’t see much of anything I would call a love message. I see more “she doesn’t like the distance.”
One reason why I say this is she thanks me for doing things for her, says how much she appreciates having me around, but mostly takes things I do for her as total gifts (mostly giving in her direction) w/o giving much back.
It seems I give/do for her, she gives/does for the pets.
I'm wondering if the biggest ache in your heart comes from feeling that BB does not love you. She does in her own way, I know that. My problem is, for her to show what I would like.
I have the book 5LL, but she won’t read any books unless someone charismatic tells her to do it.
The visible clues to show me love, take place when almost all of the things on her “has to include” list have to be present. All or most of the things on her “won’t happen if________” list are not present. Last month she was tired a lot, the air was smoky, several days it was too warm for her, the dogs had problems, her bird wouldn’t eat much for a couple of days, several people were self-centered because they didn’t call her or said the wrong things, so I just gave up looking for sex or even some hugging till relaxed. I did the minimum in the physical area, treated her like a xGF/cusin from out of town, did several to help her through her troubles with pets and the typical summertime heat/smoke/allergy issues.
if the biggest ache in your heart comes from feeling that BB does not love you….Not just sexually-- but at all. That she just keeps you around for repairs, paying bills, taking her out for fast food, etc. My biggest repeating thought is “Why isn’t what I do for us and what we have enough. Why does she want 80% of the goodies from life while she usually is only willing to do 40% of the work.
I will say, the way I feel about us from a biased 3rd. Party perspective, she does love me but feels entitled to way more than she has. She feels pets are so much more important than people but relies on people to supply some of her needs, so she can play pet mother.
The football payer Vick thing has her fuming. I think what he and those type of people did/do is terrible. BB wants to sentence him to life in prison.
One might ask (and some here have asked you from time to time) why stick around with someone who doesn't seem to care for you? BB doesn’t care enough Lil.
I see a pattern in my life. I find things that look good and work well for a long time. When the functionality level drops, I figure out ways to make do. I am in the printer and printing supplies recycling business. I repaired cars for a long time. I made do with less perfect/good most of my life. I take cardboard to the recycling center instead of throwing it in the trash. Generally, I see some form of good in more things than the average person.
But given your background, it would be very hard to walk away from a place where you once felt loved, not being sure you would find love elsewhere, kwim? I have learned something hanging out on this and other forums. I know I could be a very good mate to the right person. I know I could find someone that I would like. It is a matter of looking, going on coffee dates, spending time together, doing some stastical back-ground checks, and comparing notes, and maybe some c like you and your BF were/are doing.
BB’s once, “I don’t have to worry about you having an A or finding an OW because no one would want you” statement is laughable now. It had me worried at the time that it was true and the reason she and I didn’t get along. So Lil, thanks for many things I don’t want to post on a forum.
You're attached to BB, but it's like the little chimp in the experiment who clung to the false mother made of wire and fur... I never thought of it quite like that. I will say that is a good analogy of our R a couple of years ago, some fur on wire frames.
I was not able to confront BB in a productive manner and knew from reading the DR book, I better stick around and learn to manage myself and the R better or I could/would possibly condition the next woman to act like BB.
Dedication and responsibility play a huge role in my life. I have been through a lot of crappy conditions and as long as things were not physically violent, no drugs, or A were going on, I can survive the tough spots living on stale bread or some cake crumbs, as long as something good comes along once in a while. I don’t see broken potato chips as a problem. I see them as more smaller pieces.
Yes, I know that if you asked her, BB would say she does love you, but what has she DONE to show it? ?????? Some of the things I posted above.
What I see is the love is there but her lists of what has to be right, her list of ailments or the list of pet ailments, and the list of “no, can’t do it or go there because____” sucks the life out of what love she can show for me.
Now, if I say “A” has to happen or there will be consequences she might not like, then I can get what I want. Who likes doing that?
My biggest repeating thought is “Why isn’t what I do for us and what we have enough. Why does she want 80% of the goodies from life while she usually is only willing to do 40% of the work.
Why would you take a job where you have to do half the work for the same pay? Because they offer it and you can take it. Why shouldn’t BB do 40% of the work and not take 80% if you let her? This is not her problem. This is yours.
I also wonder if BB is in a continual state of “nesting,” trying to build up more and more stuff to calm her fears of losing you and one day doing without. Maybe her actions are not entitlement driven but fear driven.
You're attached to BB, but it's like the little chimp in the experiment who clung to the false mother made of wire and fur... I never thought of it quite like that. I will say that is a good analogy of our R a couple of years ago, some fur on wire frames.
I’m not sure if you caught Lil’s message because you focused on “some fur on wire frames.” You do understand she is talking about YOUR fear and neediness that causes you to cling, not just the scarcity of what BB offers.
Maybe her actions are not entitlement driven but fear driven. They are fear driven70% and entitlement 30% issues.
Why shouldn’t BB do 40% of the work and not take 80% if you let her? This is not her problem. This is yours. Typical NMMNG unwritten contract, "If I do more, they will do more." And there is the idea "you catch more flies with sugar."
In real life, the child/adult gets to expect more.
So, lately, most of the time I don't do as much for BB. I see she misses the attention but I also see her withdrawing. I am set on doing a minimum, no matter what happens.
I don't want our R to end up like Chocs, where BB thinks she has to go outside the R to get what she needs. I will say her pets play a miniature version of the OM/best friend, which is a support system to BB. It looks like I have to pull back to almost nothing in order for her to do much more.
I voice my opinion's about her attachment to the pets and how they are a substitute for people contact. She is convinced pets are better friends than people.
So much for "What makes Lou Happy" that does not require OP.
I think I better get back on track on this thread and do the personal/SO R ideas on my other thread.
1. I just finished reading NMMNG and a behavior of your wife BB about the pets. It sound like she has this need to "be needed" and the pets gives her that.
You on the other hand provide for her to be in that position to be needed by her pets, but not yourself except for sex.
2. How well defined is your boundaries about finances and budget? This is an area where I am not yet in control of. And based on the book, it's that "don't want to rock the boat" kind of mentality. Sure I say my complaints, but I do not DO the needed action to get the results I want. That is my issue.
3. It sounds like you two are in a cycle where each of you take turns dishing out punishments with passive-aggressive behaviors. Well, from what I know about "behaviors," they are a form of communicating a need. And there are ways to change behaviors when shown tools of how to communicate those needs.
If you live each day, as if it was your last, someday you'll most certainly be right.
Lots of book readers, theory application, and people expierenced with saving a M here. A bit more action oriented than the folks on MB, generally much better M's than the folks on MLC. Not the type of people to walk out on a M with out doing exhaustive work before giving up or hooking up with OW/OM.
My biggest repeating thought is “Why isn’t what I do for us and what we have enough. Why does she want 80% of the goodies from life while she usually is only willing to do 40% of the work.
She would be like this with ANYONE. This need to have everything is all about her and nothing about you. If you bought her everything in the world, it would not be enough. It puzzles me why you think there might someday be an end to this.
I was wondering when was the last time she did something spontaneously to let you know she LOVES you-- something that was not in direct response to your completing a chore, buying her something, doing her a favor. I had something in mind a little more demonstrative than touching your foot with her foot or putting her arm around you briefly. Buying you a present? Making your favorite meal? Looking at you with a big, sweet smile? Initiating a big long hug FOR NO REASON AT ALL.
I completely agree with her about the Vick thing, except that I think he should be executed... or tossed into a pit with hungry wolves... or made to live in a cage at an animal shelter for a year. The man is the lowest kind of scum in my book. I was outraged when I heard about the dogfighting thing, I was outraged, but when I read that he "executed" dogs who failed their viciousness audition my outrage knew no bounds.
Not to pick on you, but I always find it interesting how riled up and angry people can get over injustice to animals. I remember feeling the same way when I was small about some kids who were mean to cats or dogs. I would want to seriously hurt them. But I never understood why that made me so mad. I see the same reaction in my kids and other kids when it concerns pets.
I think part of this anger has to do with a feeling of injustice over smaller, helpless animals. It seems easy to get angry toward a bully, maybe because we are projecting our own frustrations. However when thinking of injustice that I or other people have suffered, I have a harder time getting as emotionally wound up. Have you ever noticed this?
It really makes no sense. People should be more important than animals, but people just don’t get as emotional when seeing other people suffering as they do when see an animal suffer. There is plenty of trouble in Darfur right now, in fact here’s always something brewing in Africa, some tribe being slaughtered with machetes or gunned down. But people just don’t seem to get so upset over it, certainly not like emotions you describe over the Vick case. Why do you think this is?
