I am almost finished reading the NMMNG book and I'm ready for a re-read and write down the exercises.
Hi Cobra,
Lou's correct to point you out to me about your thoughts and approaches. You seem to have a grasp of the Integrated Man (IM)that I strive to be in my journey. I'll be reading more of this forum.
If you live each day, as if it was your last, someday you'll most certainly be right.
Thanks for the compliment but don't let me fool you... what I write about and try to understand is a far cry from what I experience and am able to practice at home!
Corri The thing that pops out at me... just leaps out at me... is how you allow BB to control your happiness, your purpose and your decisions. For a moment there, when you were talking about airstreams... you sounded a bit like CeMar... OK, I see some similarities, I can’t do “A” because my values “B,” interferes or conflicts with something and that make it feel uncomfortable.
Where I see you falling flat on your face is not in knowing what would make you happy, what you would do, or how you would get there... but that you don't deserve it, somehow. Not knowing what I want I want is a problem because I do consider what BB wants and it often causes conflicts, doubles the cost, or doubles the effort, and becomes not worth doing. We have several things that have been dropped because of our different goals.
All the things you say you'd like to do.... I was going to suggest to you in one form or another... but it would fail, because you won't DO them. Meaning... you are going to have to practice disappointing BB and allowing her to take care of herself.
You have debilitated her, in a way, by always coming in to rescue her. In essence, you are dealing with a spoiled, petulant child, and you have contributed quite a great deal to her state. I often feel like BB is a rebellious teenager. She sees me as a “stubborn old man,” and has said so many times.
I'm serious. One of the reasons she doesn't GO ANYWHERE or DO ANYTHING is because she knows she controls this part of you and your R. At least on some level. If she goes with you, or does anything with you... it upsets the balance of the R, and she loses her power. I started out not doing many of the things I wanted to do because in the past I got some resistance. Then I had the back surgery and it wasn’t much fun riding in the car. After that we didn’t have much money. BB tried to recover from her childhood disappointments of only having one pet. She built up her zoo to 13 animals. She worked in a facility that had a co-dependency treatment program. There was a lot of women’s issues in the news. I became a sensitive guy, that fed in to her entitlement issues.
Three plus years ago I said I didn’t want to live like this any more (especially the shopping addiction) and Since then, in BB’s eyes, I am a controlling grumpy old man.
Back to she loses her power. I see that. I also see BB thinks she is entitled to do as she sees fit and some of what she sees as fit requires some input from me, and because H’s need to support the W. She feels she supports me.
I'm sure you even help her do this by saying things like... "Would you like to go do x with me? You don't have to if you don't want to." And YOU do this, because in actuality, YOU are the one who is controlling the R. I see the control Corri and say you are right. I can’t control BB but I can control how much I am willing to push her to do something. I don’t jump through as many of her hoops.
On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the most, how stressful was it for you visiting your sister? Because of the stress you felt, how likely is it you will repeat the trip? It wasn’t that stressful (4)when I went in 1/06. The likely hood I will repeat the trip soon (6 m) is a ten, but I need to do my part first by trashing more of my inventory.
You want BB to change so you don't have to feel bad, stressed, lonely, etc. I want compatibility but it isn’t likely to happen.
You use your energy trying to change her to get the life you want. The minute you stop doing this, she grabs for you, because it is a life she is used to as well. Similar to a FOO game of tag. A faster runner would run just a little faster than I could. I rarely caught him. When I quit chasing, gave up on the game, he chased me to keep playing.
And because you are giving up all these other things you would like to do (and you've got quite a list there), you work. It's the one thing you can do, that gives you some sort of pleasure on some level, that even SHE can't ruin. Though it does get you out of the house and serves her purpose in some way. I see now I worked to much. I felt I had to for so many wears. It is difficult to change my thinking in this area. When someone tells where they went, I start to think XX for motels, XX for gas, XX for food, balanced by how much fun the trip must have been for the person. If the cost/benefit ratio is more cost then benefit, I cringe a little even though I didn’t have to spend a cent.
I do something similar with BB, what will it cost and how much will I have to push BB to do some things I like to do. If the cost/benefit ratio is poor in my opinion, I drop the issue.
So. What all this boils down to is... how bad do you want to take charge of your own life, and let your purposes and passions define you, instead of a lifetime of habit? You are so convinced that IF you change you are going to hurt BB or end your marriage, you stop yourself before you begin. I didn’t want to end the M. I felt a D was very destructive to both of us and others in the family. I felt changes would be better. I thought I could make most of the changes happen. I thought BB should see and appreciate me for wanting and working on some of the changes (NMMNG unwritten contract).
IF you change you are going to hurt BB or end your marriage, you stop yourself before you begin. I hate to tell you... there is no possible way you could know this. You just think you do, based on early warning signs you have NEVER moved beyond. Yes, I think I am doing to do unnecessary hurt to BB.
Kettricken Lou, I agree with Corri when she said ….. you are going to have to practice disappointing BB and allowing her to take care of herself. You have debilitated her, in a way, by always coming in to rescue her. In essence, you are dealing with a spoiled, petulant child, and you have contributed quite a great deal to her state. So the “Leave it to Beaver” model of a family is not the way to go?
I do respect what you have been writing so will give your opinion credit.
What you both had in common was W' that don't see the value of sex, W that liked to spend money, and you guys doing a lot of work. Both of you write well and appear to understand the many books you all read.
In some ways you are very similar people in my mind, with slightly different W's, a bit different approaches but still almost like brothers with working on similar problems.
Lil, If I died, BB would fall apart at first, then pay a bunch of people to do what it took to get her life the way she wants it.
She would take the first offer on the house and pay what someone else asked for their place.
As far as money goes, she would hire a financial advisor (Edward Jones Investments) and have the assets available to her through a checking account. She would set up things so they did the work and she just wrote the checks.
That is my opinion based on what has happened in the past.
I think you're wrong, Lou. If you died, she would sit in the house without moving for a long, long time. She wouldn't have the first clue how to sell the house, or how to talk to an investment counselor.
Look at me-- I have a master's degree and I was single for 15 years before I married. When my husband died, I couldn't figure out what to do. I was the one who paid the bills, but I absolutely could not function. I had to get my tax person in to help me just sort through the paperwork. You don't understand how debilitating this can be. I didn't sit down in my living room for at least a month-- it just made me too sad. I stayed out late at friends' homes, came home and stood in the kitchen to eat cheese and crackers, and then went to bed. If she's helpless now, she will be UTTERLY helpless if and when you pass before her.
Taking off the training wheels would be a very good thing for her. To repeat myself, keeping her dependent isn't doing her any favors. Constantly rescuing her just to keep the peace is keeping both of you down.
You said:
Quote:
then pay a bunch of people to do what it took to get her life the way she wants it.
She would take the first offer on the house and pay what someone else asked for their place.
As far as money goes, she would hire a financial advisor (Edward Jones Investments) and have the assets available to her through a checking account. She would set up things so they did the work and she just wrote the checks.
The behavior you describe is that of a very independent, capable woman who knows what she wants and knows how to go about getting it. I think you're way overestimating what she would be capable of at such a time.
Lil I think you're wrong, Lou. If you died, she would sit in the house without moving for a long, long time. She wouldn't have the first clue how to sell the house, or how to talk to an investment counselor. You might be right. I know she would retreat into the pers more than she is now.
[/b] Look at me-- I have a master's degree and I was single for 15 years before I married. When my husband died, I couldn't figure out what to do. I was the one who paid the bills, but I absolutely could not function. I had to get my tax person in to help me just sort through the paperwork. You don't understand how debilitating this can be. I didn't sit down in my living room for at least a month-- it just made me too sad. I stayed out late at friends' homes, came home and stood in the kitchen to eat cheese and crackers, and then went to bed. If she's helpless now, she will be UTTERLY helpless if and when you pass before her. [/b] I guess I don’t understand Lil, I go by what I feel and have done in the past when her mother and uncle died. Yes, I took care of 40% of the things when her mother died. BB’s brother from Alaska did the rest.
I talked to a few people and went to MIL’s lawyer when her mother died. I didn’t have any problems, just put one foot in front of the other and did what popped up next. Then one day I got a dividend statement that said MIL had 400 shares of Exxon-Mobil (XOM) stock and then went to a broker to make a transfer to BB’s half brother. MIL had 2 different XOM certificates and we only knew about one.
When your H died, you had a lot of emotional investment in him, the R and his care. I see BB being invested in her pets, with me as a H but a H so she can have her pets.
BB tells me she loves me dearly but has to do her own thing and can’t give what I want.
I thought about BB dieing and the first problem aside from her and our R, is where do I find really good homes for her pets? I know it wouldn’t be that easy for BB.
Taking off the training wheels would be a very good thing for her. To repeat myself, keeping her dependent isn't doing her any favors. Constantly rescuing her just to keep the peace is keeping both of you down. I see where you are right. BB doesn’t use the computer and I have all important things on my computer.
You said: “then pay a bunch of people to do what it took to get her life the way she wants it……She would take the first offer on the house and pay what someone else asked for their place……. As far as money goes, she would hire a financial advisor (Edward Jones Investments) and have the assets available to her through a checking account. She would set up things so they did the work and she just wrote the checks…….the behavior you describe is that of a very independent, capable woman who knows what she wants and knows how to go about getting it. I think you're way overestimating what she would be capable of at such a time. That is based on what BB wants to do now, throw a bunch of money at a problem.
I would take care of almost everything myself if put in a situation like that.
So, part of my growth includes letting BB figure out what to do all by her self. Stop doing things for her. Stop being the head-of-house-hold, the decision maker. The recsuer
Lou
BS in Human Services w/minor in mgt of non-profit organizations, and minor in community recources. GPA 3.82 completed in 2.75 years. One semester completed out of a 4 semester masters program=burnt out. Previous HS drop out and GED certificate.
From Corri‘s posts. I thought it very important for you to feel in what part of your body your emotion(s) was occurring. So. Cobra, as you allowed yourself to imagine restoring your car, what did you feel and where did you feel it? Did you feel a surge? A bit of a smile? why? A bit of passion, even? I haven’t been aware of any feelings, so have to go back to that part of the workshop.
The old car thing started when I was in 5th grade. A neighbor had a 32 Ford 5 window coup. Chrome on the engine, Columbia rear end/differential and the paint was Royal blue metallic. Coolest car I ever saw and was practical for the average Joe. Find the parts, do the work, spend a few bucks. I can do that!
