Corri, Hmm, where to start. OK, I think what makes GGB happy is having quality time, ie interacting with someone, be it doing something together that we both enjoy, talking about something other than the kids, work or the house. I'm coming to the realization that sex is not as important to me as the above QT, but that it does seem to serve as an imperfect proxy when the QT is missing. I'm not a very good conversationalist; given my own devices, I tend to not say anything while thoughts rattle around my brain(I blew lots of dates growing up because I never figured out how to hold up my end of the conversation). We don't really have any common activities or hobbies, which doesn't help either. The trouble is MrsGGB keeps her thoughts to herself too, only wanting to discuss the kids (mostly complaints about S17 these days). She's lately been turning on the TV at night and watching that rather than talking, then a couple shows after I come to bed she turns it off wanting to cuddle. By then, I'm tired and ready for sleep. I rock in my sleep, and can't sleep cuddled up to someone. This week has been a down week. We caught S17 having sex in our side yard (he went for a "walk" w/GF) in the middle of the afternoon. That really upset MrsGGB to the point where she's withdrawn, won't talk about that and won't engage in other conversation. S17 has been downright nasty to everyone in the family, refusing to do anything to help clean up and becoming angry when asked to help out. He accuses us of hating him. Anyway all that is weighing heavily on both of us, but especially on MrsGGB. So that is the background. Anyway, the point of that background was to say that I have been feeling some loneliness, and that feels kind of like an empty stomach but perhaps a little higher in my chest. Not sure what to do with that feeling though. My natural inclination is to withdraw, and trying to not withdraw is hard, and feels placating in a way. Withdrawing though, just seems to accelerate the downward spiral. She's barely said a word to me since last Thursday when we caught S17. I guess part of my own reluctance stems from my internal questioning whether I even want to be in this marriage any more. I get into this stinkin-thinkin where I block out all the good in the marriage and all the disconnects come up front and center. ML usually will pull me out of this if it doesn't come across as being a favor for me, but only if it is several days in a row. Unfortunately, it means waiting about 2 weeks for her to get to her fertile time.
So that's where I am right now. Too much sh!t swirling around to get a firm direction I suppose. The good part is that I think I am getting an opportunity to sit back and observe my feelings and try to understand why I react the way I do.
Thank you for all of that, and while I find it interesting... you didn't do the exercise.
Take out every reference or thought of a reference 'to someone else' as part of what makes YOU happy. Again, it isn't about anyone but YOU, so no one else, in any shape of reference or implication, can be included in your happy statements. Don't worry about what might make you happy might make someone else unhappy, or happy or.. whatever....
What makes GGB happy. Give yourself permission to be completely and utterly selfish when making your list.
Hee hee. Yeah, I thought I might have skirted around it. I'm having a hard time separating myself from all else.
I'm happy when I feel I've accomplished something or figured something out, like when I got something to work (hey, I'm an engineer, so that's to be expected I suppose). I'm happiest when I can share that triumph though. That's where I'm having trouble with on your assignment, as that necessarily includes someone else. I'll keep at it. How about some examples of things that make you happy but don't involve anyone else?
I think I see what you are trying to get and what everyone seems to be missing, so as example, her is my list. Is this what you have in mind?
Things that make Cobra happy: • Sitting on the edge of a cliff overlooking the lake where I grew up and watching the setting sun go down • Sitting by the fireplace on a cold winter evening and watching the flames dance • Waking up early in the morning on a camping trip to feel the crisp air and see the mist rising from the stream/lake/meadow. • Walking along the seashore at dusk and feeling the waves lap around my feet and smell the sea breeze.
In sum, I enjoy calm, peaceful, settings without noise, fighting or confrontation. Pretty much the opposite of what I have at home.
When I have control of my purpose and life, I will have enough time to pursue all my interests. I will feel as though I have space in my life for myself, my kids, and my relationships. This is more of a self-discipline issue for me but perhaps all of the life control issues are, at their most basic. After all, having the self-discipline to enforce your own space and boundaries seems to be exactly what we're discussing here. In my case, I think, I am fairly successful at enforcing my space boundaries with my wife, but (isn’t there always a but?) I have allowed myself to be guilt-tripped by her, especially where the kids are concerned.
I know how to organize my day, and have read many articles and books pertaining to the chronically disorganized and procrastinating, and have seen it addressed in the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" book spoken about often on this board (hat tip to DIY, et al). That particular book spoke about these phenomenons as self-sabotage. Yup, I can attest to that.
The problem for me is (as in smoking) knowing this behavior is unhealthy, knowing this will prevent you from achieving all that you could, and knowing the steps you need to take to correct (or at least mitigate) the behavior in question is not difficult. I think I saw a signature quote from the movie "The Matrix" on someone's post that said "It's one thing to know the path. It's another thing to walk the path." (probably not quoted accurately, but you get the gist). (Whoops! I just found where I read that quote - Thanks Corri)
I think the "Nice Guy" book presents an interesting take; I'm still mulling that one over. I'll ruminate (read: babble incoherently) on my own thread about that, and how it fits in with my nascent attempts at differentiation a la Sanarch. Hmm...
One of the most primary things I have allowed remain in her control is the finances. On any given day, I really have no idea what bills are upcoming, what we have in the bank, etc. I do have a general idea, and she is not resistant to me reviewing all the passwords, accounts records, bills, checkbook, etc., and there has been no unusual activity. She is good with the money and I spend what I want (to a certain extent, obviously).
I have been working on regaining control of my life from HER, such as it existed, for a few months now. I really need to regain control of my life from ME!
BTW, I did manage to quit smoking about six years ago, so anything IS possible!
Now, in defense of everyone who is struggling with this, I will say again, it is HARD. And the hardest part about it, I think, is eliminating EVERYONE ELSE from your list. Like I said, it took me months to figure it out, and I'm STILL working on it.
GGB. Nope, you still missed. So did you, LM. (LM, no offense, but you are running way ahead. You gotta start with this exercise, first )
GGB: I don't care how you carve up your day, making time for this, that or the other thing (or groups of people in your life, i.e, kids/wife). I have no doubt you are all devoted family people. The problem with the exercise is that you are so concerned about being seen, by yourself and others, as a devoted, caring member of your family... that you no longer have any sense of self.
Okay. So, when I was struggling with this, the same way you all were... my shrink said to me... 'let's say you had a day to yourself. All your chores and work were done. Your family was away, your friends were away... and it was JUST YOU. What would you do that would make you happy?"
Most of my answers revolved around a restful activity, like reading a book, watching a movie, listening to music... all of which are PASSIVE activities. (Cobra's were a little passive as well... but he also has specifics in his list.. like going camping. Walking along an ocean shore is kind of vague... I'm assuming there was some planning involved that got you to A SHORE (which one), and there was some reason you were going... and you had some vague sense of what ELSE you wanted to do while at the shore... unless you like walking all day) So. I was nixed. Again.
"There is nothing wrong with relaxing and recharging your batteries. But... that is relaxing and recharging your batteries. So, now, let's say you are relaxed and your batteries are recharged, and STILL, your friends and family are still away, your work and chores are STILL done... what would you do?"
Now, please don't argue with me, like I did with my shrink, at how unrealistic this scenario is (because it is). That isn't the point. You still have to answer the question.
Quite honestly, Lou's second list, after he started dropping out other people from it, is pretty specific. Maybe take a look.
Try again, GGB. You say you like the feeling of accomplishing something. <-- what's the very specific something? Is it the thing you would do, first, if your friends and family all went away for a week, and all your work and chores were done?
Once you get one thing on the list... I think that is great. But one thing... just isn't going to cut it.
Doggone it, this is hard! That's going to take a bunch more pondering, because it is something I've never even considered. The to-do list is soooo long that it is hard to look past the end of it. Then again, I'm reaching burn-out so it is good to try to see beyond the need to do stuff. Then I need to get past all the unwinding/relaxation stuff. I can see this is going to take a while to peel back the layers, but I'll keep going at it. Man, first assignment and I'm already pulling an 'F'!
In the recent past when I've been alone and not feeling like taking care of responsibilities, well I just vegetate and then later regret wasting time, but I also have never identified something I *wanted* to do rather than something that had to be done. Guess I am more enmeshed in being Dad and Husband than I even realized.
Corri, I think there is another thing that has to be taken out of the equation, and that is the cost of doing whatever. For example, I've thought that if I had the time and money, I'd like to try my hand at restoring an old car or building an airplane. Not sure if I'd keep up my interest all the way through or not, however right now it isn't anything more than a passing fantasy. I'd also like to fly myself around the country and visit small airports. What holds me up there more than anything is that once I get there (I've stopped at a number small airports), is that I get shy and have a hard time talking to the people I find there. I suppose one of the obstacles I need to put on my roadmap would be working on my conversational skills and getting over my shyness. But then, I'm getting ahead of the program a little there, aren't I?
I was thinking that we were to imagine things that make us feel good. For me, happy thoughts come with peaceful thoughts, and those come in the type of settings I described. For more assertive activities, I like recreational, sport, adventure type of things. Individual sports come to mind (since we can’t involve other people), maybe snow skiing, scuba diving, hang gliding? (I’d love to do that someday!) What I don’t like are noisy, excessively high energy things like rock concerts, loud parties, etc. Oh yeah, I see GGB mention restoring old cars. I need to start on that project in the near future, restoring my old Shelby Cobra. S10 will soon be old enough to help out. And travel, that’s a great one!
For career type goals, I would like to do something creative/artistic, something with my hands, something that you can see the fruits of your labor. Definitely not something like public relations or sales. The problem with artistic jobs is the money. Hard to raise a family as a starving artist. Maybe travel as a photographer... nahh, still no money.
Yeah, that's why I mentioned having to take the cost out of the equation too.
I like making things too. I don't really care much for doing maintenance, but I like making, and more specifically designing things, especially intricate complicated things (hence my line of work, which is digital design). I also enjoy problem/puzzle solving.
)