In not paying attention to her needs, in focusing on me and my pain at the time, I was, in some senses, a WAS inside of our M.
bar, this is also what I think grasshopper was saying. Part of his point was that people get all worked up about an A, as if breaking that one vow were worse than breaking all the others both made: to cherish, sickness/health, etc. The LBS spouse needs to recognize their own part and not use that trump card of "at least I didn't do *that.*"
I know for my part that I was too oblivious, selfish, and lazy to work hard on issues I knew our M had/has, in a sense abandoning my DH. Is actual abandonment any worse than emotional abandonment? At the least, I don't want to underestimate the unhappiness my DH has felt, even if he's just discovering it himself in comparison with his R with the OW.
Originally Posted By: Heimlich
And, Puddle, I keep looking over your thread trying to offer somewhat less addled advice, but I just can't seem to decipher what your H is after, other than a free pass to go his on way without any guilt.
I think he'd laugh if I said that to him. And I think that's essentially where he is, though he'd probably say he'd like me to understand so that I can move on (and let him go) without hard feelings, having true understanding for him and acceptance of the situation. He recognizes that the understanding part may be mostly about his needs.
And Heimlich, addled or not, your thoughts are much appreciated. All my figuring out what DH really wants right now is reading between the lines, since he's far beyond even thinking about what might have been missing in our R. I know a talk like that is coming---I think some will be in this email I'm looking forward to/scared stiff to get. He's not even thinking in those terms. For him, our R is what it is, it's just not what he wants anymore.
I actually fell asleep last night more at peace than I have been since this began, mostly due to reading grasshopper's posts, I think. Then DH was wandering around in the middle of the night and I woke up, but it was still okay. He, on the other hand, can't get himself out of bed. It's nice to think he's not as settled as he seems, though maybe it's just the stress of my inability to understand him. And even that may be good.
Hey bar! About telling him I was hiking alone: He asked if it was a guided hike and I just casually said no. Then as I was getting ready to go I decided that since I'm not an experienced hiker and he didn't know where I was going, it was prudent safety wise to tell him. I guess I could've just told him where I was going and to send in the cavalry if I didn't come back by afternoon. He seemed really concerned and asked, "Is it dangerous? Are you going off trail?" So anyway, it was a safety thing. Maybe next time I can just leave a note somewhere telling him where I'm hiking, and a note in my car for the ranger.
Oh bar, get thee to the pub! Does everyone know everyone where you are? What if you went to the next village (not the OW one)? Maybe you'll start a new trend and end up being a feminist icon---new passion?
I bet your H's OW is really hurt and bitter about what's been done to her in the past. I had a reaction like that once (of course I was a teenager, and I'd like to think I wouldn't do that now). It's hard either way, you know? Say H is involved with a wonderful, centered woman (hard to imagine, I know)---you just sit around comparing yourself and seeing your faults. Or he's involved with a hurting/angry/unstable person, and it's hard to believe compared to you they'd choose that. I'm trying very, very hard only to think about it in terms of what it tells me about what DH wants. I know I'll get better at that.
Take care, everyone. Thanks so much for your words.
Puddle you make me laugh about the pub. Feminist icon- moi? Funnily enough, around this area, I have a lot of acquaintances and I'm bound to bump into someone or other. Quite often I can't remember where I met them but their faces are familiar.
What it tells me about what H wants? Well, he is a needy person and he needs a needy person. When I stopped my neediness and started GALing he was confused and puzzled as to why I wasn't depressed. On the one hand he hates me being needy but on the other he wants to be needed.
He once told me that their R is on a level I would never be able to comprehend. This is their spiritual and psychic connection.
Same as my H: understanding and compassion. That's what he's got but it just makes him to comfortable, Puddle. Really don'rt know how long this can go on.
Puddle, Just one thought, you don't need to tell H anything nor talk to him about the R. There are others in your life who can be your "safety net" for now. Let him feel your absence for a while! You are only giving him what he has asked for!
SD
Me 41 W 41 Kids: S9 S7 Married 16 years Bomb dropped 2/2/07 Still living together! current thread
Thanks, SuperDad. I don't want to share my feelings with DH---that may be out of hurt, since I just feel like he doesn't get to be the one to hurt and comfort me at the same time. I do indeed have others to talk to, and all of you are an important part of that, for which I'm grateful.
Originally Posted By: SuperDad
You are only giving him what he has asked for!
Actually what he asked for is that I understand he can no longer be my romantic partner, though in his words that shouldn't affect our wonderful friendship/partnership. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to get the magnitude of what he's asking. It's infuriating to think that he may feel sorry for me, in the sense that "Gosh, we could be such good friends; too bad she can't understand what this *really* is and not feel so hurt." Of course that's exactly what I'm working on, with help from all of you. Then we'll see if that's what he really wants. It's going to be a very long road, though.
Can someone please explain to me the thing about not calling back? I know I don't have to check in with DH after he calls, though I obviously would've before. I feel like acting as if everything's fine could include a response, though.
Of course I don't know what the future holds, but I have a very strong feeling that even if things with the OW go south, he won't want to work on our M. I think he'll feel like he's had a glimpse of something he wants, and can't imagine it could be with me. I know feelings change and I hope, especially with the changes I'm making, that he'll eventually change his mind. That's where we are right now, though.
Hey bar, I'll ask you again so I can understand you better. Given your description of H, why do you want the M to work, other than you've been together for so long? I'm working on this question myself, and despite my horrible disappointment in DH right now, I do have a couple of reasons, even beyond the kids.
Thanks again, SuperDad and everyone. I really appreciate it.
Puddle - there's a lot of history as well as time.We've been through so much, I can't begin to explain. We've been together longer than we were with our parents. I can hardly remember life before we met. I still love him and want him and I always will. That's it, bar
I get it. And even if I didn't, who cares? I was just wondering if *you* knew! It can be hard to keep sight of through all this.
I just had a good conversation with my DB counselor. She told me I'm a natural DBer. Ha! Who knew I had such gifts? Who knew I'd ever need them?!
And I'm feeling pretty solid about the I-don't-have-to-talk-to-DH-about-my-feelings stuff. Not going to, not now, anyway. He's gone gone gone in his mind. We're getting along pretty well today. He's called twice (I answered once) and told me some big stuff that's going on at work (which involves pay, so me). And it's weirdly nice to hear him say, "And I'll tell them I'll discuss it with my wife." Wow. I'm not reading a damn thing into it, but it was nice to hear him say "my wife."
By the way, the counselor answered my question about not answering the phone and getting a life. She said it's not about not being available or not but being unpredictable. She said since he said he's getting used to me not picking up, pick up once in a while. So I get it. Now I just have to do it. And I just got the chance, and a nice chat to boot.
I'm not sure if your H is in an MLC, or a part of one, or if it's the OW that's "shown him the light", or what. But when he says, there's nothing he has a bone to pick about, I think that's not really true.
My H acted the same way, and for alot of men I think this happens so often that the W looses her identity because of the redundancy of life with M and children and for most women we put everyone above ourselves. So here our H is thinking, he's just lost feelings for us W's when it's really US. not just their feelings.
does that make sense? I mean, are you REALLY the same person that he met when he wanted you?
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
I'm not sure if your H is in an MLC, or a part of one, or if it's the OW that's "shown him the light", or what. But when he says, there's nothing he has a bone to pick about, I think that's not really true.
Well, I don't think it's true either. I know I've made plenty of mistakes, and I take responsibility for withdrawing from him. Right now apparently he just doesn't see anything to find fault with, or more likely, doesn't see the point in rehashing any of it. And regarding what this is really all about, I think this email he's going to send me will tell me more.
Originally Posted By: S.T. _I Made It!
he's just lost feelings for us W's when it's really US. not just their feelings.
Do you mean it's us that have changed or that they've lost us?
Originally Posted By: S.T. _I Made It!
I mean, are you REALLY the same person that he met when he wanted you?
That's a good question. In some ways yes, and in some ways no, and I need to think more about it. Thanks for the fodder. I'll let you know what I figure out.
Actually what he asked for is that I understand he can no longer be my romantic partner, though in his words that shouldn't affect our wonderful friendship/partnership. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to get the magnitude of what he's asking. It's infuriating to think that he may feel sorry for me, in the sense that "Gosh, we could be such good friends; too bad she can't understand what this *really* is and not feel so hurt."
Puddle, exactly what my W wants that is, her cake and eat it too. I have made it clear that this cannot happen. I will not live a compromised life. Once I move on, it is over, we will not be friends, partners, or anything else other than co-parents.
If you have not made this 100% clear, you should!
SD
Me 41 W 41 Kids: S9 S7 Married 16 years Bomb dropped 2/2/07 Still living together! current thread
Once I move on, it is over, we will not be friends, partners, or anything else other than co-parents.
If you have not made this 100% clear, you should!
The only thing I've said in that direction is that I may never forgive him for this. Actually, I wish I hadn't said that. (His response, by the way, was that he'd have to live with that.)
I'm not ready to say that to him, because I don't know that it's true. We would certainly never be the kind of friends we were. When he said that thing about being friends, I said that for me our friendship was based on trust, and that trust has been shaken. (He said, "I think that's an understatement." Duh.)
But for me, what I'm most interested in is the kids. I think that part of the damage done to children in D is the bitterness of the partners toward one another, and I'm determined that that not happen. I can't coparent with someone I don't care for and respect (that's definitely going to be a tough one!), or if I did, I couldn't hide my bad feelings from my kids.
Anyway, I may reach that point sometime, but for right now I'm working on my anger and trying to sympathize with him more. I think this will be good for our R (whatever it is), and it definitely helps with acting cheery around him. And if I were to say something like that, I'm pretty sure two things would happen. One, he'd see it as a ploy to control him. And two, it'd be another "I'll have to live with that" kind of thing.
Can you tell me why (and in what context) you said that to your W?
