New and confused

[SuperDad]

Puddle,
Hope your hike was great! I love to get out in the mountains, but not so many here in FL. I just have to make up for it by hitting the beach more often.

[Puddle]

Thanks, SD, it was just beautiful. Would've been even better if I hadn't had a hard time reigning in that disobedient-dog-of-a-brain of mine---heel! I had conversation after conversation with DH in my head, all reasonable stuff, but none of which would help. He's not able to think rationally right now. And I thought of all kinds of great, guilt-inducing things to say to him. Also not helpful. Maybe I got it off my chest, though.

Thank goodness I have a DB phone counseling session tomorrow. I'm just stuck about what to say to DH re the R. He's waiting to hear it, and as I read on another post, he's not going to be able to budge until he believes I've moved on, which I haven't (and I've told him so). I'm very confused about that one.

Then on the way down the mountain, I had an image flash through my still disobedient brain: trying to get my kids ready for DH's next wedding. Had to pull over and cry, it hit me so unexpectedly. I really have to get a grip.

The beach sounds lovely! Yes, get out there and enjoy.

[S.T. _I Made It!]

Hey, just read briefly your thread.

I wanted to say that my H was having an A and was practically half way out of the house. When I had made the decision to start DBing and being the best woman, mother, wife I could be, I wanted him to know how I felt.

I told him that I believed his A was against our M and God but that God told me that I needed to be the best W that I could be, and that's what I planned to do because I WAS his W. I understood that he did not feel the same way that I did. But I also hoped that he would understand how I felt. I also told him that I did not want him to be away from the kids earlier than he needed to and that we would love for him to stay as long as he could respect me and our children by keeping any contact with OW outside of our home.

I also want to say that my M was saved. if it was not for my faith in Christ, I really believe that my M would not have been saved.

I believe you have much hope for your M and just continue to keep your head up and take care of yourself. Good things are happening for you, although they may seem very small, you are still on the right road. He has noticed small changes and that is good.

It is going to take time, and what you have to remember is that your H has been hurt for a long time and it's going to take time to remedy that. He's going to have to figure out for himself what he really wants/needs. And that CAN be you. It's going to take YOU to help him figure that out. This is a very humbling experience and you really do have to look at yourself, deeply, and can you say "I really love myself". not in a vain way. I know that I couldn't say that last year. So, if you can't, well, how can your H? I know this really sucks, but like someone else mentioned, this can be a good thing. But it's up to YOU to make it a good thing. You get to choose what you do with this sitch and experience. You can either learn from it and grow from it, or you can wallow in self pity or anger and help destroy what you want saved.

I know that you can save your M. If you don't mind, I will say a prayer for you tonight.

oh, and think of a stop sign or something when you have those "bad" thoughts. The worse thing you can do is to tell yourself to quit thinking about them. Don't do that. Instead just distract yourself anytime it happens. Get your hands busy with something.

oh, another thing that may help, when a spouse does something like this, they are in a way "sick". But you did marry for sickness and in health. They are sick because they are really not in reality. They have been hurt and can no longer think of any good times, but it's only bad. They aren't able to really think rationally, even though they SAY they can. To them, it's all about feeling, but love is not a feeling, it's a choice. Feelings don't ever last. But this is something he will have to learn thru time.

take care and have a good week.

[Puddle]

Hey ST,

you really do have to look at yourself, deeply, and can you say "I really love myself".

That's a tough one. I'm pretty sure I love myself. At the moment, though, I know I'm strong and I'm proud of myself.

I know that you can save your M. If you don't mind, I will say a prayer for you tonight.

I'm grateful for all prayers and good thoughts, so thank you.

Instead just distract yourself anytime it happens. Get your hands busy with something.

Good advice, thank you.

To them, it's all about feeling, but love is not a feeling, it's a choice. Feelings don't ever last. But this is something he will have to learn thru time.

I am so with you on your definition of love. And yes, he'll have to learn (or not), and I'm getting an opportunity to learn patience, which has never been my strong point.

DH just wanted to have another talk. He said he's sad that I view this as a choice, and he'd like me to really understand but knows I might not. He said it's more of a clarity of "what needs to be done," not selfishness, though he can understand it might be seen that way. He said it's like when someone gets religion (no offense) and changes their life because of it. To nonbelievers it may look selfish, but they can't really understand. He said he wants to write me a long email laying all this out while causing as few hurt feelings as possible. Says there's nothing for my feelings to be hurt about---he has no bones to pick with me.

And that he's sorry to "burden" me with this whole situation. Okay, it's an apology, an acknowledgment that he's causing me pain. It's just not the one I'd been hoping for.

Then he told me he's not comfortable sleeping in our bed anymore.

I took that one with surprising equanimity. I could tell he was uncomfortable and I think I'd been waiting for it. Weirdly, all this stuff---taking his ring off, not sleeping in the bed---feels like it had to happen. He's not going to change his mind about anything right now (if he ever does). He's too early in it, I think.

Oh, and earlier he said he's been trying to figure out how he can fake his own death to collect on life insurance. My heart absolutely stopped for a second until I realized he was kidding. But it does say that he's thinking about money. I honestly think if he had unlimited wealth, he'd be out of here.

Anyway, I'm afraid there's more to come. I fully expect him to move out at some point, and I'm sick with sadness about our children. Who in the world would be involved with a person who still lived at home with their spouse and children?

I'm so very disappointed in him that I almost feel sorry for him. Ironically, I think he feels sorry for me since I can't understand that the scales have finally fallen from his eyes. Weirdly (again---there's a lot of weirdness happening around here) these explanations might help me to detach a bit. It feels a little like he's explaining that he's discovered he can communicate with the dead or he's been abducted by aliens. I just keep thinking, man, you're nuts! In a way, I guess we feel the same way about each other right now.

Thanks for stopping by, ST. I appreciate your thoughts and prayers.

[soul_mate]

Who in the world would be involved with a person who still lived at home with their spouse and children?

After reading so many posts I often wonder this myself. I can't even imagine unless of course that other person is being lied to and has no clue.

Hang in there you are right he is at the early stages and seems to be completely lost right now. I know what you mean about actually feeling sorry for your spouse. They are so lost and our of character you can't help but fell sorry for them even through all the pain you are feeling.

[Puddle]

Hey soul mate,

Who in the world would be involved with a person who still lived at home with their spouse and children?

After reading so many posts I often wonder this myself. I can't even imagine unless of course that other person is being lied to and has no clue.

It's amazing. And in my case, the OW was a friend of mine whom I introduced to DH. She's hung out with our kids and is coming out of a seriously unstable relationship. And one of the things she liked about us so much was seeing a successful marriage. Ouch.

Hang in there you are right he is at the early stages and seems to be completely lost right now.

Yeah, it's true. He's got a serious buzz on, feels like he finally has a shot at happiness, etc. And I want him to be happy, and eventually I'll want him to be happy with whomever. I sometimes do now, so that's a good thing, I think.

I just read an amazing old post by grasshopper about not blaming the WAS. He said in effect that for a marriage to get to this point, both spouses are really WASs in a way, and thinking in those terms helps me empathize with DH and not blame him.

Take care, soul mate. Thanks for posting.

[bar]

Can't get the hang of quoting?

'Who in the world would be involved with a person who still lived at home...'

Especially when this has happened to OW at least twice before. She is doing to me what some OW has done to her. She pities me and thinks it's cruel to stay with me. Isn't it just as cruel to leave me?

In what way are we WASs, Puddle?


bar

[Heimlich]

Puddle/Bar,

I haven't read through all of Grasshopper's posts yet, but that WAS comment rings true. While I didn't have an A or outwardly quit on my M, I know that in some ways I emotionally distanced myself from my W for a few years. She was trying to help me in her way, but I wasn't listening or hearing her. In not paying attention to her needs, in focusing on me and my pain at the time, I was, in some senses, a WAS inside of our M. I just didn't have the courage to do anything to change it or the wisdom at the time to see what I was doing.

Poop. So here I am.

Hang in there ladies. And, Bar, just because it's not the "done thing" to walk down to a pub for a beer doesn't mean you still can't do it.

And, Puddle, I keep looking over your thread trying to offer somewhat less addled advice, but I just can't seem to decipher what your H is after, other than a free pass to go his on way without any guilt (which strikes me as very cowardly -- sorry, you're angry enough with him that I don't need to add further fuel to that fire). If I puzzle out a decent thought for you, I'll let you know

BD

[bar]

Hi H!

You're absolutely right about the pub; many women do but they always meet someone inside there! Would you like to meet me in my local, H? Actually, there is a music bar we go to together where we have quite a few acquaintances. I would be fine there but it's a good drive away - and I don't have the courage yet.

I agree about the emotional distance but don't think it's the same as WAS behaviour because it has a different purpose in terms of saving the R and also staying sane. My would- like- to- but- haven't- the- guts- to WAS ( WWLTBHTGTWAS), is not interested in saving the M and is not in a healthy place mentally either.

Puddle - I'm glad you enjoyed your hike but I would not have told my H I was going alone. I'm keeping my cards really close to my chest. Been reading your thread and so many of your issues are like mine except for the young kids. I suppose I should be grateful but a hug and a smile from a little warm body that needs me, at home, would be wonderful.

I also have very upsetting flashes about my H and OW eg his wedding,which my son attends, them sitting under the christmas tree exchanging gifts, them going on fabulous holidays etc etc. So hard to squash down.

Hope you're having a restful sleep,

take care both, bar

[bar]

11.45 am. really wish I was in your time zones.

Anyway haven't gone out because asked H, on the offchance, if he wanted to go for lunch later. To my surprise he said yes. I was expecting the old 'I'm busy' line.

Been thinking about my 'evidence' and it means little in terms of our R I think. It means he's unhappy, probably that he's still here. However, given that they were over 100 miles away and he stays out as late as possible, normally, I can't help but think they've had words. Arriving here at 9 means they had to leave before 7 and it just seems odd.

I know she pressurises him, telling him how cruel he is to me, and that she can't wait forever blah blah. Like they're knocking the door down to a thrice married loser who is nearly sixty. Oh yes, what a catch. Quick before she's snapped up.

So there's definitely something up.

The last Monday lunch we had, he told me he really wanted to go but that he told OW he still loved/cared/felt responsible for me. I wonder if I'll get a similar conversation today?

I swear I am not going to initiate anything and I am not going help him, if he does. I am sure her patience is running out faster than mine.

Get back to you all later when you are awake,

bar